Sony team read -

filmy wrote on 9/28/2004, 6:52 PM

So some of you may have read my new BTX system issues. Well - Sony should get with Gateway (?) and educate them about some issues. I just spent the evening finally talking to tech support after one week of trying - and man oh man am I sorry I ever recomeneded or purchased a Gateway. The ole workhorse system was/is great, tech support was awesome. However this new system has issues and "tech support" does not know what they are doing. This is a brand new system - 700GR. And the tech team has not friggin clue what it is or how it works. The last guy (I have talked to 6 different peple tonight in various locations, all of them tossing up their hands and passing me onto another number) said, several times, that the reason the system is triggering the BTX failsafe is because of the software - any software that might be being used when it happens. Since the most easly reproducable "power off" scenerio involves mepg 2 render than it is, according to Gateway tech, Vegas doing it. Exact words were "I can't help you with Software issues." And I say "It isn't the software" "Well because this only happens when you are using software I can't help you, you need to contact them" ?!?!?!?!?!? I tried to explain other software where it has done the same thing, not doing mpeg render - After Efftec with "real time" preview causes it. Dropping a bullet look onto the Vegas timelime and trying to preview at "best" will do it. The "PC WIzard" will do it. he didn't want to hear nay of it - nope. SO I aksed hom about the bios - that isn't software. He said it was Intel, not theirs.

<Irony & Sarcasim> Gee Sony, and others, you beyter get your issues with the Intel BTX form factor and hyperthreading and P4 3.4 ghx Xeons together!! How dare you create software that tells these nice systems to cut power!! Shame on you! </Irony & Sarcasim>

I told the last "tech" to get ahold of Dr Droput and tell him about a possible issue that Gateway needed to repro and maybe Gateway could get a copy of Vegas and whatever else to test out on these new systems. I figure, you know, if this is an issue with Mobo maybe gateway would like to know and if it did have something to do with SOny they might like to know.

Intel refuses to deal with the issue because, even though it is their chipset, their controller, their CPU and their Mobo, it is Gateways OEM. Gateway themselves really don't want to deal with it. I found myself explaining to the tech people over and over again what the BTX was. I actaully have done more reading on the specs than the damn tech support.

Never again. Unless this is resolved in 24 hours I am wiping everything and taking the system back. Looking for another system that works. This has been a pretty bad month for me so far...er..two months.

Comments

nickle wrote on 9/28/2004, 7:52 PM

At the risk of you putting a hex on me, you can check out the following link:

http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,102288-5-0-1-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html

But to diagnose one more time, you could (should) yank out all cables except keyboard, mouse and video, swap out the Ati pc express or whatever is in it) for a known good video card, disable the shutdown monitors in the bios and desktop and running taskbar items (start/run/msconfig/startup) and give it a shot.
If it plays nice, then enable the monitors and troubleshoot your way to the source.

If the problem is software it is Gateway's software.

farss wrote on 9/28/2004, 8:31 PM

For this and a dozen other reasons like it I'd never buy a PC with a brand name period.
Even if you get the odd bit wrong when you roll your own each bit isn't that expensive so even if you have to chuck it in the bin and buy the right bit you're still in front.
The only exception of course is laptops.

Bob.

nickle wrote on 9/28/2004, 8:56 PM

O.K. I just did a bit of research. Your cpu uses over 115 watts of power and your video card at least 75 watts and when you add up the dual fans and hard drives and ram etc. you are approaching 400 watts.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,117228,00.asp
"Intel warned system designers in February that the latest version of the Pentium 4, the 90-nanometer Prescott core, consumes upward of 115 watts of power under maximum operating conditions. Advanced Micro Devices' Athlon 64 chips also consume a lot of power, up to 89 watts under certain conditions."

If Gateway skimps on the power supply the way Dell does, you are going to see the problems you are having.
http://www11.brinkster.com/bayup/doarticles.asp?a=27

Chanimal wrote on 9/28/2004, 10:03 PM

I've had a similar problem, not with a name brand PC, but with an underpowered UPS. During rendering, or when both CD's engaged at the same time, the system would use more power than the UPS was rated and it failed and shut off every time. The UPS fuse button went off (only once, but it was the last time), which is how I discovered it. Worked fine after I disconnected the UPS.

It is similar with an underpowered power supply (Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. all seem to use the cheapest junk out there). Could be the problem.

rmack350 wrote on 9/28/2004, 10:41 PM

Filmy,

I haven't read your BTX posts but I can pretty well get the gist of it from this one.

I write training materials for these people (not this particular company but another similar one). I'm not surprised that they know very little on the topic-the phone support people may well have never seen the hardware and are just working off troubleshooting scripts.

You should take the system back. Obviously, the software you're using runs very nicely on other hardware and this particular hardware can't do it.

Phone support costs Gateway money and since margins are pretty low you may well have eaten up all their profit already. So you can draw some satisfaction there.

Good Luck! Escalate, Escalate, Escalate!

Rob Mack

chaboud wrote on 9/29/2004, 8:49 AM

If you have a big fan to point at this thing, it seems likely that you are running into power and/or heat issues. Efficiency of power-supplies goes way down as they get hot, so the two problems can be linked. If you have a temperature/voltage monitoring tool (SpeedFan may or may not work for you), take a look to see if any values are out of whack. If your voltages are deviating from the suggested value, you're likely drawing too much power.

If Vegas (or any other software application that you run) is not interacting closely with drivers, it can't cause a crash-reboot in Windows. If you're not getting a bluescreen or a memory dump event (check in Event Viewer under "System"), you can be pretty sure that it's a hardware problem.

JJKizak wrote on 9/29/2004, 10:02 AM

Filmy:
If your handy with your hands you can add another power supply as I have slaved to the master supply which is controlled from the motherboard, the slave supply activated by a Radio Shack 12 volt dc
relay from the master supply voltage. You have to cut out some metal
on the back with a Dremel tool and drill some mounting holes for the
slave supply. I have been using double power supplies for about 4 or 5 years now one primarily for the motherboard and the other for the drives. Each power supply that I use is 350 watts for a total of 700 watts.
Or you can install the new super $189.00 550 watt supply from some outfit in California. (PC Power & Cooling, 800-722-6555, http://pcpowercooling..com

JJK

arcorob wrote on 9/29/2004, 12:09 PM

I have a cheaper solution for you
1) DUMP the prescott
2) Buy a Northwood
3) Sell the precott on EBAY.

I did a side by side comparison 3.2 prescott vs 3.2 northwood
Northwood ate the precott alive in all aspects and stayed Much Much cooler (not to mention less draw)

MPEG renders took longer , hokey events occurred...I sold my Prescott in 48 hours. Just my opinion.

And I have a 550 watt supply..cost 129 at comp usa

filmy wrote on 9/29/2004, 4:20 PM

Wow - Power - doh!!!

Did not cross my mind - and guess what? Seems to be it.

Once I saw that from Nickle it hit me that could be it, and I did a test. I opened Vegas, oopened a file on the main drive (C) and rendered *to* the same drive. It was a 10 minute file and it took over a hour to render - with hyperthreading on. Mind you it was reading and writing to the same drive so it would take a while than how you would do it in the "real world". But it did not power off. Ahhhhh....it is a bit more clear now. So I now open another file on *another* drive. I render out the same way, the same length - this time it is zipping through...10 minutes file about 15 minutes or so, hyperthreading on...but at about the 10 minute mark - *poof* power off. Yep - because now power is being yanked from not one, but 2 drives. FYI - the included power supply is only 300 watts. So I am looking at a better power sources. Comp USA has one for under 100 bucks that included the thermal monitoring and SATA connections. I also found another place that has lower priced power supllies as well. But thus far it for sure seems ot be a power issue.

Ad as for the BackUps suggestion - tried bypassing that and it stayed stable. So I am also looking at a bigger BackUps - logic would say 300 = 300 however that doesn't seem to be the case. Clearly the system is pulling in more than 300 even though the power supplly is only a 300. However, and this is still an issue - "tech support" didn't even bother with a power issue nor did they bother checking out a system with added drives even though as is you can add 2 more internal SATA drives. My thing is now if one were to load up Vegas and run the test as I describe, but keeping it all on the included drive - it would not power off. On the one hand I feel a bit better about this now, on the other I am still pissed off that I had to go through a week looking for this fairly logical and simple answer.

Now to test some other programs and see what happens. Now do I send the bill for a bigger Power Supply to Gateway?

MikeMD wrote on 9/29/2004, 5:46 PM

Another reason why we should build our own PCs. a 300W PS in this day and age is a joke ( especially with Prescots ).

You can get a nice Enermax ( 430 - 500 W ) from newegg, for $70 + shipping overnight and it could be better and cheaper than Comp USA one you were looking at ( although since it includes SATA connections it could be the same Enermax I'm talking about )

planders wrote on 9/29/2004, 7:13 PM

I went through my own power supply nightmare this past spring. No shutdowns, but apparent memory errors. Even got some RAM replaced under warranty. Bottom line: with only two RAMBUS RIMMs installed, the machine worked perfectly. Add a second pair, crash/error within minutes under heavy load. After swapping pairs in and out, then putting each in different sockets, thought to check my power levels. Under CPU load, my power levels went haywire. A crash usually followed rather quickly thereafter.

I ended up replacing my basic 400W no-name unit with an Antec TruePower 550, and the problems vanished. The machine has been rock-solid ever since.

It doesn't pay to skimp on power supplies on Pentium 4 systems, it would appear--at least if you plan to have more than one hard disk and a decent amount of memory.