"I'm pretty sure the other programmers are aware of what nested sequences are... "

And yet...

Rob

Yeah, Peter is mainly into the audio side programming of the app and you guys have been jumping all over him, while we've been giving him praise over on the audio side. And a few of you video users think I'm a little out of line and over the top. If I was Peter I would have told you guys to go kiss my ars.....but then again, I don't have to be so quite politically correct, since I'm not a Sony employee.

Not an employee but definately an illmannered shill.

>And a few of you video users think I'm a little out of line and over the top. If I was Peter I would have told you guys to go kiss my ars.....but then again, I don't have to be so quite politically correct, since I'm not a Sony employee.

Nah. What makes you think we think you are over the line? We children are glad you stopped by to point out why we are all whining ingrates. That's a very fatherly thing for you to take the time to do.

Glad you could stop by, but can I show you the way back to the warm and pleasant side of the forums where you usually live, and no doubt will be more comfortable?

<SMACK>
Ooops! What was that? The door hitting you in the ass?

Funny how adults can be immature sometimes

Hey Rednroll, most of us video users aren't "jumping all over him". And it's not like some of you audio guys haven't had your day of asking/bitching for some features over the past few years. Granted, there are some real tools on this video forum that act like real life Cartmans.
That said, all the audio guys should thank your lucky stars that Vegas is both a NLE and a DAW. Sony would have never bought the Sofo product line without Vegas doing video and Vegas could be down the tube if Sony didn't step in. BTW, have you looked at a B&H catalog lately? Vegas isn't sold as an audio product. Many other audio catalogs don't list it either. Has Vegas won any product of the year awards in the audio field or even had any articles about it? Looks like it's not even on the map in the audio field. Maybe you could put your energy there.
Peter not telling us to kiss his ars isn't about being politically correct, it's good business. Good business is also adding the features that are needed by the group spending the most money. Care to guess what group that is? And they have done that for the most part. Heck, they even took care of the smaller audio user base with this new release. But, they missed a major feature with timeline nesting.
I'm not here to fight with you or anyone else. Can you say the same? Hope so.

Craig H.

"ony would have never bought the Sofo product line without Vegas doing video and Vegas could be down the tube if Sony didn't step in."

You where part of the Sony buyout and know what Sony's interest where? That's pretty funny and I see your viewpoint is so self centered. Let me tell you, Sony bought the rights to Sound Forge, Acid, CD Architect, Noise Reduction Plugin along with Vegas and DVD Architecture. So the majority of what they purchased isn't even NLE related. And Yes, These products have had major awards iin the audio field, but I suppose if you would live outside your narrow little world you would have realized that. Sony bought it because it included a total "multimedia" package. From what I have seen, I don't see too many movies being made without sound these days, but I sure do see a lot of music being made without movies. If you also haven't noticed the name of the website "media software". Bought by Sony's Mulit-"media" devision. Come back to reality.

If you absolutely NEED a nested timeline, go buy a NLE that has one. Seems simple enough to me.

BTW, what is "nested timeline" ? Is this a useful feature for video editors ? Thanks.

First of all, what bought Rednroll over to this forum in the first place--don't remember him posting here before the new release. I also see that he goes back to his home base in Audio and gloats about stirring things up---The guy is obviously very immature---and suffers from self-esteem issues. Now go away and dont come back.


By the way, nested time lines essentially allow you to create several versions of a give project, (or sections of a project) and switch back and forth between them. I think that Premiere Pro uses a pull down menu or tab system to chose a given line.

rex : That's not really how it works, nesting is much more powerful, read the different examples on the forum.

Boys and girls, please, calm down.

I am and always have been an audio developer at Sonic Foundry/SONY. I am an audio centric guy. I started on Vegas 1.0 when the Video NLE aspect was but a mere glimmer in the eye of the CTO.

Audio user are far less forgiving that video users in my experiance. If a frame drops during preview, it is not a project ending event. If we drop one sample of audio, you hear it and EVERY body hears it. It is completely unacceptable. The real-time nature of audio is far more demanding than the real-time nature of video. Why do you think the video playback is driven by the audio clock?

While I think our video features are super neat-o-keen, they are not my focus when I sit down to write code. I am here to advance the audio stuff. I wanted to understand how "nested timelines" would work from a purely audio perspective. The Video guys here at SONY toss this concept around like everybody on the planet but use poor audio slobs know what it means and all the implications it has. There are some parallels in the audio DAW world, but nothing like what I am hearing is wanted by the Video NLE crowd.

I ask my questions to those in the audio forum because I know them and don't pretend to be a video jock. If I really get stuck on understanding what somebody wants, I ask SPOT or other private gurus. I also need the audio user perspective of something like nested timelines. I always play very ignorant, because I don't want to assume anything. I want to understand. I also want the audio perspective on any feature.

We are very orthogonal in our development. Vegas is a very mature product. I honestly don't understand the current griping going on, but hey, that is what keeps us on our toes to improve things with every release.

I have said it before, and will repeat myself as often as needed: Sony cares VERY much about delivering the best tools in Vegas, ACID, Sound Forge, etc. We have never been told to dumb down any of our products. I would think the huge presence at NAB (and our return to NAMM earlier this year) would have proven this.

Making our tools consistently easy to work with is hardwork. Understand that what seems trivial on the surface because our GUI is so painless, takes a lot of work. The technology aspect is the easy part - in general. The GUI is the lions share of the work, and it really has to be right to be useful.

Sure, we could bolt on a lot of new features and toss bullet items around our ads. This would be a bad thing. We are very critical of our selves and stability is by far the biggest concern for a "professional" app. SonyEPM is VERY critical of everything we do.

(OT: I really wish both forums would give the "professional" label a rest. It is nothing more than an emotional argument. Do those that toss it out at us think it will embarrass us to do what you want? LOL!

I guess SPOT is not a pro because he uses Vegas? Damn, he better return those awards he received. I mean, he is only a pro if everybody agrees that the tools he uses are professional.

Somebody better call Rudy Sarzo and tell him to stop using our stuff. He may get kicked out of his latest tour if somebody finds out that his use of Vegas and ACID make him an amateur.

Any tool can be "professional" if it is used by a professional. The tool does not make the user a "pro", the user makes the tool useful - nothing more. If it doesn't do what you want, then the pro will find the tools to get the job done.

Soap box mode off)

We do listen and we do read this and many other forums. We talk and discuss the market and look at the competition. We are not copy cat's. Just because vendor X does this, does NOT mean we will focus on them. As far as I can tell, we have actually gotten the other guys to look at our stuff and adopt our work flow - at least in the audio DAW world.

We do listen. I am hanging here just to see what your impression of Vegas 5 was. If we didn't care, you would never hear from a dev in these forums.

Ok, you can fight amongst your selves again....<g>

Peter


.

I've got to agree here. I just don't see that Sony is specifically a video company. They sell a lot of audio products as well.

Reading through the audio forum a little bit I see a lot of very knowledgable posts. I didn't notice quite as many basic questions. Just makes me think that there aren't as many new users over there. That's neither good nor bad but it points up the fact that Vegas is a pretty substantial audio tool and that much of the video workflow comes out of audio thinking.

Rob Mack

Happy to hear from you peter.

BTW, I added some blather about what I see nested timelines as doing Here:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=19&MessageID=273290

I realize that nesting needs to be useful for audio as well. I can't see why it wouldn't be but maybe my idea of nesting Acid projects in a Vegas timeline would be attractive.

Rob Mack

Making our tools consistently easy to work with is hardwork. Understand that what seems trivial on the surface because our GUI is so painless, takes a lot of work. The technology aspect is the easy part - in general. The GUI is the lions share of the work, and it really has to be right to be useful.

I never doubted for a second that this was true. It's obvious the GUI is of mammoth importance to the dev team. Vegas has one of the best GUI's of any software - not just NLEs or DAWs - but any software. Keep up the good work. There is a Vegas 5 bugs? thread that points out some minor flub-ups that slipped into Vegas 5a, but I know you guys will fix them soon. Can't say that about Adobe, Macromedia, Discreet, Microsoft, or HP (just looking at my quick launch bar and remembering the bugs in each program that have persisted for eons).