sorta OT: whatsa Matte Box

RexA wrote on 3/29/2004, 10:34 PM

I never had any real camera training, but I'm gradually learning more and this group seems pretty well informed.

Ok, on the web I have seen pictures of some Matte Boxes, but never saw one up close. So I'm asking our cinematographer experts... are they all pretty much the same? I see many have flags or shades of some kind, but all? What should they really do? Can they all hold filters, or something like that in slots? -- And sort of related, what standard dimensions are available for these sorts of filters (is rectangular an appropriate term?). i.e., 3"x3", 4x4, etc. How thick are these filters in their holders?

If you can point me to web pages or books with this level of information, that would be good too.

I have a DVX100 and may soon get the anamorphic lens addition, so this is my main target for these questions. I also have some skills in building things, so am thinking about "rolling my own", but never having seen one, I sure want to learn more first. (Just for me, not a product.)

Sort of related... is there any standard for those dual-rod supports? Are they standard diameter, standard spacing between, standard distance from lens center, or all different for any camera/manufacturer?

Lots of questions. Thanks for any answers or pointers to good information.

Comments

rmack350 wrote on 3/29/2004, 11:06 PM

Whew! Lotsa questions indeed.

Haven't worked as an AC but I've spent lots of time as a dolly grip standing close to camera and getting it rigged to the dolly. (Dollies are what grips use to learn to walk upright, fwiw)

Matte boxes hold filters, usually rectangular. They could also hold hard mattes but I've never seen them used that way.

They also can have a brow on the top that can take the place of a french flag and give the operator the illusion of controlling lens flares.

In my experience the rods are a standard size but that's a relative thing since the matte box you'd use for 35mm setups may be just too big for smaller cameras. The rods allow you to slide the box forward and back to fit al the lenses you might use and to allow the lenses to be changed easily. The box usually could swing out as well so that the AC could have clear access to shine a light down the lense and check the gate.

The matte box allows you to use filters independently of the lens. Just slide them into slots on the box. The filters would be a standard size. You have to make sure there are no light leaks from the back side of the box as these will reflect on the filters and mar your shots.

Usually, the camera sits on a quick release plate. The plate holds the rods and the whole assembly can slide forwards and backwards to allow the camera to be balanced fore and aft. Once balanced, the camera won't easily pitch forward if you take your eyes off it.

As your camera gets heavier the demands on your fluid head grow as well. Something to consider.

Rob Mack

RexA wrote on 3/29/2004, 11:16 PM

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. Gave me lots of stuff to narrow what I thought, down.

Hope to hear more from others, but can you tell me any more about the filters? Usually slots in the matte box for more than one? I would assume the filters have holders that are thicker than the actual filter. About how thick for the holder (mm or inch fraction)?

thanks again

PDB wrote on 3/29/2004, 11:25 PM

Rex,

I don't know if you've come across this site specific to de DVX100, but just in case (I think you'll like it...):

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/DVX.cgi

And as far as the Matte box, you'll see they have a review on one sold for the DVX100 at a reasonable price. The review is here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/matteblox/

and a link discussing this system for the dvx is this:

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/YaBB.cgi?board=Links;action=display;num=1065729194

and the link to the seller is here, with a spring special for 30 units (for dvx users members....):

http://cinetactics.com/spring.php

Hope this was useful!

Regards
Paul.

RexA wrote on 3/29/2004, 11:33 PM

Wow.

Still looking but sure it will be useful, for learning, if or not purchase.

[edit after looking]

hmmm

They don't mention the anamorphic adapter. Seems that would change things significantly -- no 72mm to hook into.

I could have missed something but seems an incomplete solution for dvx100 and anamorphic.

More generic answers to all my questions in the original are still very welcome too.

PDB wrote on 3/29/2004, 11:36 PM

N/T

PDB wrote on 3/29/2004, 11:56 PM

Rex,

If I recall correctly, the Matte Box for the anamorphic adapter is in the works...though no release date yet...You may be interested in contacting cinetactics to enquire, or alternatively check out this thread discussing the Matte Box coz there are a few who have expressed your interest in one for the adapter and a guy from cinetactics is actually active in that thread if I remember correctly...:
http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/YaBB.cgi?board=Links;action=display;num=1080160545
The poster is Greg Mote and he states on 25th March regarding the anamorphic adapter Matte Box:
"We are not ready to announce the exact date of the arrival of our LA-7200 compatible Matteblox yet. The first prototype should arrive in a week or two. As soon as we have something to show we will let you guys know"

anyway, just a suggestion (BTW, I have nothing to do with with cinetactis: I'm considering buying the Matte Box myself!)

farss wrote on 3/30/2004, 6:51 PM

To answer your original question:

A matte box servers two functions that I know of:

1) To stop incident light getting to the lens, this can make for an improvement in the image, something I think people should be using more.

2) They will typically hold at least two filters, one fixed and one rotating for polarizing filters. Standard filter sizes are 3x3 and 4x4.

3) They add HUGE amounts of sex appeal to the camera. OK thats three but it isn't as funny as it sounds. The average DV camera just doesn't seem to cut it as a 'pro' piece of gear witha lot of customers, add the matte box and things change.

As for the Panny 16:9 lens, Crozlier (hope I spelt it right) do a matte box that will work with the lens, need to mod the lens, ie remove the existing hood. A few suppliers will supply the lens moded with the matte box.
Other advantage once you have the rods is you can then also fit a follow focus unit.

Be warned, a good matte box, rods, follow focus unit and glass filters will easily double your investment.