SOT: Sony's AVCHD cameras.

farss wrote on 9/3/2007, 1:05 AM

Today I got sucked into the AVCHD vortex for the first time, thanks to the CX7 and all I can say so far is this thing seems to have disaster written all over it. Hopefully I'm wrong, someone tell me what I'm not getting.

Take stick out of camera, plug into reader connected to PC, Windoz says media is not formatted, would you like me to format it for you?
Now good thing I'm not Joe Average and decided to decline Bill's kind offer.
So we stick the camera in its cradle and connect the cradle to the PC, finally we can find a folder full of .MST files. Going down this path things work OK with 7.0e, phew. We could even get all the 5.1 tracks.
So flushed by our limited success here we burn the files to a DVD and take it over to FCP. Oh no Sir, it will not have a bar of those MST files which is really strange, cause it CAN edit footage from the camera.

Now Sony also ship a utility for doing a backup to DVD with a PC. We'd already done this and you'd have though we could put that DVD into a PC and get the files off it but no, there's no directory on the DVD. Stranger. But on the PC that we'd installed the widget that came with the camera we can, Windows Explorer opens that DVD just fine. Has the Sony widget fiddled with the OS to make this happen, who knows?

But the final oddity is this DVD with invisible files FCP manages to open and convert to ProRes, great if you've got heaps of HDD to spare. Even more confusing it seems iMovie can cut the native AVCHD files and play them back in RT, something that Vegas doesn't come even close to.

My only conclusion is that if we're lucky and the client is told exactly what to do we might actually be able to edit their footage. A slight blip in their concentration and they might format their Memory Stick. Of they might back it up to a DVD that cannot be read and write over whatever they had recorded on the stick.

Anyway I'm all ears, please someone tell me what we're missing.

Bob.

Comments

4eyes wrote on 9/3/2007, 6:47 AM

Only my experience so far if this helps.
The stick may be formatted in udf 2.5 or 2.6 file format, although I haven't seen this yet on the memory sticks. But the larger capacity memory sticks may not be FAT32 because of the 2 gig file limitation on FAT32. The avchd sony cams that write to the mini-dvd's are in udf 2.6 and Vista can read them. I would think that memory sticks larger then 2gig have to use another format. Your probably using XP.

The MTS is a mpeg2 transport stream container with the h264_video/Dolby5.1_audio tracks inside of the container. I don't know why, when avchd formats are written to hard media the extensions are MTS, when they are written to optical media it's M2TS.

If using Vegas and you want to edit the videos then drag the MTS files from the cam into the project and render as cineform or a hd-mpeg2 TS file (or any other format). For extensive editing cineform is the best of course.

Do you have a directory structure on this card? One that starts as BDMV? If so burn it to a dvd in 2.6 udf format only (no iso bridge) and this should create an avchd disk playable in any Sony/Pioneer blu-ray player.

I wouldn't pan fast when shooting avchd, matter of fact don't pan at all if possible. I think you will get better video from it if you use it more like a picture camera, shooting each scene separately but pausing the cam between recordings to create only one file, if that's possible with the CX7.

farss wrote on 9/3/2007, 6:59 AM

Thanks, I think.
Yes using XP which *might* explain why I can't read the sticks directly, maybe the camera's USB interface converts to something that XP can read, still strange though.
The MTS and M2TS thing I think I noticed, even starnger. Like I say whatever is going on is wierd and fraught with traps. I'm hoping someone else can chime in. We're looking to buy 4 to 6 of these cameras but the workflow needs to be simple and idiot proof.

Bob.

farss wrote on 9/3/2007, 7:01 AM

Arrgh,
hang on here. When the 8GB sticks are formatted in the DSC A100 XP can read them fine. It's got to be the CX7 doing something wierd, I think.

Bob.

blink3times wrote on 9/3/2007, 7:30 AM

"because of the 2 gig file limitation on FAT32."
===========================================
Actually it is 4 gig

I should also point out that Nero 7 ultra has the drivers for reading UDF 2.5 and 2.6. (3xdvd is written as UDF2.5 / 2,6.... with nero 7 you CAN watch a 3xdvd on your PC)

fwtep wrote on 9/3/2007, 8:49 AM

Could the stick problem be that your reader is old? I have an old multi-format reader that doesn't read my 4gb, but a different one that does.

4eyes wrote on 9/3/2007, 9:27 AM

Blink3times,
Yes, Nero 7 ultra enhanced is nice.

I'll have to try InCD with Nero on XP again. Couldn't get it to read 2.6 on XP, only 2.5.
That's right, it's 4gig file limitation on FAT32. I still run across the 2gig limitation with some codec's though. My mistake.

I've learned how to smartrender avchd video, nice & fast, looks just like a file copy.

Personally I wouldn't buy 6 avchd cams if I planned to edit the video. Would be nice if sony would come out with a hdv cam that records to a cams harddisk. I still prefer recording in HDV hd-mpeg2 versus avchd.

If you can get it you need that update I was telling you about.

farss,
Do you have a BDMV directory structure on the media stick w/sub-directories?

farss wrote on 9/3/2007, 2:00 PM

I'm pretty certain that the stick reader will normally read the cards. No problem with the same cards when used in our DSC A100 Sony still cameras.
I'll look into the UDF 2.5/6 issue, that could explain quite a lot.
We're looking for a cheap, reliable, easy to use camera for corporate use. The sort of Survivor gig where 4 execs go out in the wild each with a camera and at the end of the day they show off their videos and get to take home something they can show around e.g. a SD DVD.

So far the CX7 or some other AVCHD camera is looking good. The unit seems pretty rugged thanks to recording to flash, the price is right and the images good enough for the task. We just need to sort out the post part of this. No serious editing is needed so the performance in V7 is good enough. If any serious editing was to be done then not that hard to bulk downconvert to 16:9 SD with Vegas and edit that.

Thanks for all the input, will keep plodding away at this.

Bob.

Laurence wrote on 9/3/2007, 2:11 PM

I have no problem whatsoever reading the 8 gig memory stick directly from the reader in my Epson printer. I second the idea that you have an older reader that just can't handle the high capacity memory stick. Like it or not, that's your problem.

Laurence wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:10 PM

Gearshift has just been updated to version 1.7. The new version will generate proxies from AVCHD .MTS clips. This is probably the most practical way to currently edit this type of raw footage.

Working with the CX-7 footage is really quite easy. Just pop the memory stick in a reader, copy the .MTS clips in the AVCHD directory into your project directory, run Gearshift 1.7, edit the proxies and switch gears back to the original .MTS clips for the final render. If you don't have a recent memory card reader that can handle high capacity memory stick pro duo media, use the dock that comes with the CX-7.

farss wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:35 PM

Thanks,
I'll give this a go.
We've struck another problem. We sell the Convergent Design little box that does HDMI to HD/SD SDI. Works perfectly with every camera except the CX7. Looks like the CX7 simply will not output anything to it. The CX7 works fine to our Bravias, must try the Dell 2407.

Bob.

Spot|DSE wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:55 PM

Hmmm...Farss, might want to contact Convergent. I'm using a CX7 w/one, but mine is a prototype.
My workflow is laid out in a document on the VASST site, but upshot is just copy the 8GB stick to an HDD, drop those files onto the Vegas timeline, edit.
Be prepped for longer render times. GearShift works quite well to convert to HDV or CineForm.

Laurence wrote on 9/5/2007, 8:55 PM

Gearshift 1.7 will also convert .MTS clips to whatever other high definition format you want, like Cineform for instance. Just select an HD conversion format and leave the proxy format space blank. You can select any HD format that Vegas is capable of rendering to.

What do you think of the CX7 footage? Are you as impressed as I am?