Spot - How's the glass in the Z1? and a question about downsampling

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/8/2004, 2:07 PM

Spot,
First of all thanks for all the help you've provided me and everyone else in here.

Ok, so first of all obvioulsy how's the lense on Z1?
2nd - Assuming that all things could be equal; is the image going to be of a higher quality in appearance if I shoot in HD and downsample in comparison to shooting in SD, or is it not going to make a difference?

I have heard that for some reason people are getting better looking video if they use the cineform codec, but I don't know if that's because it's being downsampled, or if it's just a sharper image that they're working with.

Thanks for your input.

(I'm in the process of trying to decide wether or not to spend the money going HD or getting something a little higher quality SD and then going HD later)

Comments

busterkeaton wrote on 12/8/2004, 2:36 PM

I have no experience with the HDV cameras, but I will take a shot at this.

The lens in the FX1 and Z1 is the same. From the accounts I have seen, people say it's excellent.

I believe the image will be of higher quality if you shoot HDV and downsample. I've seen downsampled HDV and I believe you will get a greater dynamic range than you would with straight DV. There is more color detail in the low end and the high end. I only saw the stills though. Spot has said that Vegas downsamples better than the camera does. Also remember that both the FX1 and the Z1 will shoot in normal DV. So you can use it as a DV camera if you wish.

Here's David Hague's account of working with the FX1. He was impressed but he also noticed a few problems.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/8/2004, 2:42 PM

thanks buster,
I had already read the review, and I've looked at some images and footage from the FX-1 but I didn't know that it was the same lense on both of them, so that's news to me, I appreciate the input. I am aware that it can shoot standard DV but I figured that I could possibly spend near the same money and get a better lense by going SD only. It might be that I wouldn't be able to however.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/8/2004, 8:07 PM

I get the feeling that Spot may be busy during the Expo. I'll gladly accept anyone's input as to what they think on this topic.

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/8/2004, 10:43 PM

Just got in from the party at Expo, sitting here with the Z1 in my room. Compared to any cam in it's price range, this lens FEELS better than anything I've touched, including my b'cast lens on my XL, and I really like that lens. The quality of the image...I've not shot charts with, but I'm super impressed with what I've seen. The way it's laid out, 3 fingers control the focus, zoom, and exposure.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/8/2004, 11:39 PM

thanks spot, enjoy the expo!

BTW is the zoom ring on it able to have the servo turned off? and does it come to a stop point or does it free spin?

(hoping you'll take a look in the morning :)

farss wrote on 12/9/2004, 12:10 AM

I can't remember if it's the zoom or the focus, one has stops an the other doesn't, you can disengage the servo on both though.

I'm waiting to see if any focus follow gear comes out for this camera, it sure screams out for the full kit, rods, matte box, follow focus etc. I've seen a Hoodman snout for the LCD screen already.

I don't know what Sony want for the shoulder brace, I think it was reasonable, should be a good investment.

Bob.
Bob.

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/9/2004, 12:58 AM

The zoom ring has a stop point, and both may be disconnected from the servo.

SimonW wrote on 12/9/2004, 3:01 AM

How can both be disconnected from the servo when there is no mechanical connection between the 'manual' zoom handle and the lens assembly?

farss wrote on 12/9/2004, 3:57 AM

Maybe there is a mechanical assembly?
I'll try tomorrow, if there is a connection then I shoud be able to move the lens elements with the camera powered down. I'll be surprised if there is though, that kind of drive is a big power hog.
Bob.

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/9/2004, 7:25 AM

I didn't mean to post "both", sorry. the focus can be disconned. It was very late last night, I was a little to the wind after the day on the floor and the party that ran late.

Grazie wrote on 12/9/2004, 7:33 AM

" . . . . and the party that ran late. " . . yeah yeah yeah . . that'll be the PARTY that I missed . .'cos I live on the other side of the PLANET! ! ! . . What a bore . . . went on real late eh? Don't yah just hate it when parties go on real late? . . . hey ho . . . .

G

SimonW wrote on 12/9/2004, 7:33 AM

Hmm. I'm still confused however. From what I have seen of the cameras none of the two models has a marked focus barrel, instead using the dreaded focus ring. How does this work as a mechanical focus if there is no focus stop, or way of marking distance?

Coursedesign wrote on 12/9/2004, 10:49 AM

"How does this work as a mechanical focus if there is no focus stop, or way of marking distance?"

You twist until it looks sharp where you want it :O)

The zoom-focus really helps with this also.

Barry_Green wrote on 12/9/2004, 11:51 AM

"Hmm. I'm still confused however. From what I have seen of the cameras none of the two models has a marked focus barrel, instead using the dreaded focus ring. How does this work as a mechanical focus if there is no focus stop, or way of marking distance?"

The zoom has no mechanical connection to the lens -- it looks like the DVX's zoom ring, but it doesn't act quite like it. On the DVX there's a physical mechanical linkage. On the FX1/Z1 it's a servo zoom no matter what you do.

What happens is that when you change from servo to manual mode, it just changes which switch drives the servo motor. In "servo" mode, the zoom rocker drives the zoom motor. In "manual" mode, the zoom ring drives the servo motor. It's a similar arrangement to how the PD170 zoom ring works, with two differences: there are hard stops at each end, and the zoom will settle down to residing at what the focal length markings on the ring say.

What this means is, if you zoom slow enough, the zoom ring focus length markings will reflect what the actual zoom position is. If you zoom quickly you can get ahead of the zoom motor, and in fact if you try to snap-zoom in/out you can be pulling the lever to "wide" while the lens continues to zoom in to "tele". But the zoom will catch up to what the markings say.

In practice, as long as you're not trying to snap zoom, the manual zoom works pretty well. It does feel silky smooth, like butter.

The focus ring is no different than any other consumer camera focus ring, with the exception that it does provide focus distance position in meters on the viewfinder, which is nice. I didn't test it for "repeatability" -- one awesome feature of the DVX is that the focus ring is entirely precise and repeatable, just like a "real" manual focus ring. Can't do that with the Canon, and I don't know if you can do it with the FX1/Z1, I forgot to test that.

Both manual focus and zoom on the FX1/Z1 are improvements over the XL2 20x lens, because they give some feedback about lens position. And FX1's power zoom is better than the DVX's power zoom, because it offers many more speeds. But for manual control the DVX is still superior to the FX1/Z1 -- true mechanical linkage for the zoom, and repeatable/precise focus control with a 0-99 focus readout give you control that the FX1 didn't seem to have. However, as coursedesign said, the "expanded focus" is very nice, and works in DV mode too. All cameras should have that feature!