sRGB images losing shadow detail

Andy_L wrote on 10/5/2009, 11:29 AM
This is something unexpected I found while doing tests to try to understand what, exactly, the studio/full-range pixel format options do.

Find or create an sRGB (not to be confused with studio levels) grayscale image in linear increments (ie, 0,8,16,24,...) and import it into a Vegas project. If you are using the video levels project properties pixel format, add a computer to studio fx and be sure to check the studio levels box on the secondary display options. If you are using full range in the pixel format, do not apply fx to the image, and be sure to clear the studio levels box on the secondary display options.

In either case, if you have a good monitor, you will see a loss of shadow detail (darkening) when previewing the sRGB grayscale image via the secondary display.

If you don't have a good monitor, you can still see the effect by viewing the waveform in video scopes: the incremental levels show a non-linear rise that compromises shadow detail at the bottom of the range.

This darkening corresponds to darker sRGB images I've observed when burning Vegas projects to BluRay and watching on my HDTV. Initially I thought this was due solely to a failure to properly convert images to video levels, but that is not the case. The problem persists even with properly converted images.

The effect can perhaps be best corrected using Vegas Color Curves FX, and bumping shadow detail while watching the video scopes until the grayscale's increments appear linear.

Speculations: I'm going to assume the Secondary Display preview is correct (since it matches what's appearing in Video Scopes). If that is so, then Vegas is apparently botching the conversion of sRGB still images to YUV video -- the levels aren't mapping correctly.

I suppose it's also possible that this mapping mismatch is supposed to happen (though I really can't imagine why).

The bottom line here seems to be if you're importing corrected images into Vegas, you'll need to correct a second time within Vegas to match the original image's levels (as seen, for example, in Photoshop).

Comments

Laurence wrote on 10/5/2009, 1:05 PM
Sometimes you can lose detail in the shadows and highlights if you use a broadcast colors filter.
Andy_L wrote on 10/5/2009, 5:32 PM
I wish it was that simple to fix! :)
GlennChan wrote on 10/5/2009, 8:54 PM
I'm not sure I see this? / I am probably not thinking very hard right now and am not understanding your message. / can't reproduce your problem
Andy_L wrote on 10/6/2009, 8:14 AM
I can replicate this on XP and Vista 64 machines using Vegas 9b. First, grab the grayscale here:



Create a new project and add the grayscale to the timeline. This issue happens in both full and video levels pixel format, but for the sake of simplicity, let's just stick with full range 32-bit, so change project properties to that.

Now take a look at the grayscale image in video scopes:

The cool thing about a grayscale is that it makes the video scope waveform really easy to understand. This grayscale was created in linear increments from black to white (I think in 17-unit steps), so we should expect video scopes to show us a linear increase in brightness from one bar to the next...



But look: instead there is a "bunching" of the shadows at the bottom (left) of the range, as highlighted above. The visual result of this is lost shadow detail and a darker overall appearance.

Whatever is going on here, it seems pretty clear that Vegas is not accurately mapping the brightness of the grayscale image to the YUV format.

To correct the image, I tried using curves to push up just the shadows. Overall, this works pretty well:



Now the image as seen in/by Vegas does a much better job of matching the source image (as seen, for example, in Photoshop).

Make sense?
GlennChan wrote on 10/6/2009, 10:07 AM
Ok, the reason I didn't see your problem is because this depends on the file format of the media.

If you right click the event and go into properties and then the file format tab (whatever it's called), it does happen for any media which uses:
Plug-In
Name: wicplug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 9.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\wicplug
Format: Image Sequence
Version: Version 1.0 (Build 381)
Company: Sony Creative Software Inc.

So that would be TIF, TGA, PNG, BMP, image sequences.

Maybe it has something to do with Quicktime???

2- This seems like a bug? Have you reported it?
Andy_L wrote on 10/6/2009, 12:36 PM
Yeah, and JPEG too--basically any time you want to create a slide show, this comes into play.

I haven't reported yet. New to Vegas and video, so wasn't sure if I was seeing intended behavior or not. I'll send a note to Sony.
GlennChan wrote on 10/6/2009, 12:43 PM
PSDs and some other file formats don't do this. It also seems like it doesn't happen in 8-bit mode either.
Andy_L wrote on 10/6/2009, 1:32 PM
Nice catch. I don't see it in 8-bit mode on either my XP or Vista machine either.