Moreover, why trade the little time difference for quality?

>… Any tips to speed up renders? >

You could get a faster computer. Another possibility, depending on your project, is to adopt a kind of non-linear or multi-tasking workflow, something that Vegas lends itself to quite nicely.

For example, you could break a 1.5 hour project down into say a dozen or so 3 to 10 minute segments and edit/render the segments individually. The segments might coincide with DVD chapters. Start by editing one of the segments and start rendering it as soon as editing is finished. Open another instance of Vegas and begin editing another segment while the first segment is rendering in the background. Continue this strategy until all segments are completed. If there are editing changes to be made at this point, re-renders will only be required for those segments where changes are made.

Finally, arrange the individual segments (rendered avi’s) on a ‘project’ timeline. Rendering of the ‘project’ will now be considerably faster as all the heavy processing will have already been done.

JL

I own Xdv 3.5 and never use it as I found it impossible to figure out. A weekend with Vegas and DSE's DVDs and I was off and running. The render times did seem pretty comparable in the little time I spent b/t the two.
I do appreciate the uncompressed option, but really use it only for going to AE. What other purpose does it serve?

Darell, I'm going to be the odd man out, here. If you're really that unhappy with Vegas, if you think Avid Xpress Pro is that much better to work with and you're happy with it, then go for it, my friend.

Not everyone drive a Chevy.

J--

Spot had given stats for a :30 second render w/ FX taking approx 37 seconds longer to render than AvidXpress Pro. This seems to be exactly what the original comment was regarding Vegas taking so long to render an hour and a half program!! I may be wrong...but according to the test Spot had stated...Vegas would render an hour program almost 72 minutes slower than Avid and 108 minutes slower for an hour and a half program...so no settings wrong given the controlled test by spot and Vegas is very much slower than the Avid and time is money....I am doing a 6 hour show for a home builder on Vegas- I could save a whole day if I rendered on an Avid!! That cannot be taken lightly my friends....

True enough, but it's also in the knowledge of how to shoot, edit. I don't have to do much color correcting on my work, so much of my finished product is DV. There is no rendering time for just DV. It's blurs, color correction, etc that makes rendering slower. True indeed, Vegas is a bit slower. About 10% slower on the whole. But, I'll put the quality of recompressed Vegas footage over an Avid or anything else at this point, any day. Next question. How much longer does it take to EDIT in Express? Much longer. So how much time are you really saving?
Knowing both apps well, I can't see how anyone could possibly like Express better, and if it's only for reasons of render, try this;
Render a page curl in Vegas. Render same in Express. Then freeze on a frame of both on an external monitor. Look at the aliasing! It's horrible. True, a viewer won't see this on the average TV, but they'll sure see it on any big screen, and it's completely unacceptable. Hmmm. Pan/Crop. See how long THAT takes in Avid. Composite a few layers together. See how long that takes.
I agree with Videocurmudgeon though, if you like Express, by all means stick with it. Same for those who like whatever else they are using. There's certainly nothing wrong with not being a Vegas user.

>" I could save a whole day if I rendered on an Avid!! That cannot be taken lightly my friends...."

Depends on how you spend that day. If you have nothing else to be getting on with, I guess watching a line grow for a day might become tedious. But seriously, unless the client is expecting the finished product yesterday, it's not an issue - and you can use sleep time to do big renders.

Plus, as Spot said, how long would it take you to get to rendering time with Avid, and how good would it look - these are also things not to be taken lightly.

I was about to misquote I don't remember who to support what Videocurmudgeon said but then realised it didn't actually work out that way but here goes anyway:

"It doesn't matter how it got done, it's how it looks on the screen that counts"

From memory he was talking about using a DI to add effects in a movie.

Wow nice ideas everyone!!!! AVID better make better software because with the way Vegas Users defend their turf SONY better make the next revision reallly good.

My basis for render lengths are legit, because an editing workflow is just the same, a cut here a dissolve there DVE here color correction there, the methods may be the same but i work and edit the same way on both apps, i was just surprised that the render time is taking way too slow.

Frankly i use both, AVIDs color correction with 3 monitor windows beats anything bar none, even FCP4, while Vegas has the best audio controls in software NLE.

When i edit long form i use AVID, while use Vegas for music videos and short return projects that dont have to be full of effects.

In terms of quality, my outputs from both apps have been great no complaints from clients, AVID tends to have a softer output though, which im pretty sure Vegas can also output.

Industry standard OMF files BINS make AVID the best in terms of offline edits which make them compatible to the MCs and Symphonies of the world. But these OMFs are also not geared for real desktop NLEs name any other NLE in the planet that uses OMFs??? so Vegas wins as a real online system because AVIs are readily imported to a host apps in the windows world.

ANy opinions?

Well, you're right in general. You cannot beat Avid in being able to conform from DV to any of the hi-end systems, for that reason alone I think it's a pretty pointless comparison. That doesn't make Express Dv a better desktop NLE. If that's all you're after you're putting yourself in a straight jacket for nothing.
There is a serious quality issue though with Express DV. You've picked it up yourself. The ouput looks softer because their codec uses chroma smoothing, neither Vegas or FCP do this for a very good reason. Avids codec will produce serious image degradation after only a few generations, real world tests done on the Vegas codec showed no percievable loss after 99 generations of rerendering.

This matters not a shred if your offlining for a hi-end Avid system, it sure matters if you're going to output straight from Express DV in my opiniion.

...even Jesus couldn't save them all...