Submitting TV material on DVD

Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 9:02 AM
Hi all,
Ordinarily I submit TV material on mini DV tape with the required 0db bars and tone and -3db average. When I tested (by recapturing the test pattern from the tape) it always stayed the same(0db tone,3db avg).
PBS wants this doc on DVD so I just burned a copy (rendered AC3 in Vegas 5 and burned in DVDA Architect).
I recaptured in V5 and the tone is showing up as -5db. Should I re-render the AC3 at +5 db (seems like that would cause problems to me) or what?

Thanks very much,
Randy

Comments

Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 10:24 AM
Very sorry to bump this but the project is to be overnighted today. Can someone please tell me why DVDA attenuates the audio -5 db?
Thanks and sorry again,
Randy
Former user wrote on 5/8/2007, 10:26 AM
Isn't there a setting under the Custom setup for the AC3 encoding to control this?

Dave T2
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 10:39 AM
Thank you, thank you Dave!
Not in DVDA but in V5 maybe. When selecting render as ac3 default in V5, them customize under dialog normalization it defaults to -27db. I'm going to change it to -22db and see if that does it and report back.
Thanks again Dave,
Randy
johnmeyer wrote on 5/8/2007, 10:49 AM
Read this thread:

Dolby Digital Dialogue normalization
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 10:50 AM
DVDA reports it will recompress this. I'll try .wav and report back
Former user wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:09 AM
Do you have your project properties set up for AC3 audio in DVDA? It should not recompress an AC3 signal if it is. If you import a WAV and the project is set for AC3, it will recompress. You need to set project for WAV audio. In my opinion, you might as well use WAV audio anyway. Uncompressed will work fine and you don't need to worry about audio levels being messed with.

The only time I use AC3 is when disk space is an issue.

Dave T2
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:18 AM
I know I've made DVDs w- .wav before w/o compressing however DVDA is reporting it will compress the wav.
This is with PCM stereo selected in properties and only using 73% of a 4.7 GB DVD.
Surely I'm overlooking something!
Former user wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:29 AM
Sounds strange. Make sure you did not use SCOTT WAV rendering. I have done this a couple of times accidentally since they are close by on the list.

Otherwise, you are saying that when DVDA is open, and you click on PROPERTIES underneath the FILE tab, that the properties state PCM audio? When you go to make disk, can you check OPTIMIZE properties and be sure they all indicate PCM.

Dave T2
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:48 AM
Make sure you did not use SCOTT WAV rendering.
MS wav 44.1hz,16 bit stereo PCM wave file in V5

Otherwise, you are saying that when DVDA is open, and you click on PROPERTIES underneath the FILE tab, that the properties state PCM audio?
PCM stereo, yes
When you go to make disk, can you check OPTIMIZE properties and be sure they all indicate PCM.
Optimize page indicates PCM stereo also. Should I let it recompress and see if it attenuates the wav or is that a given.
Thanks Dave,
Randy
Former user wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:49 AM
Audio has to be 48k.
44.1 is only used for Music CDs.

Dave T2
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:52 AM

Dave, how does the sample rate have an impact on the decibel level?

Former user wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:53 AM
No impact on level, but that is why it keeps saying it needs to recompress.

AC3 vs. Wav will have an impact on level.

Dave T2
johnmeyer wrote on 5/8/2007, 11:53 AM
Did you read the link in my earlier post? I think it will solve your the problem as stated in your original post.

The advice given there (for AC-3):

Change the dialog normalization to -31


Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/8/2007, 12:01 PM

No impact on level, but that is why it keeps saying it needs to recompress.

Okay, I hadn't taken that into consideration.

Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 12:06 PM
Audio has to be 48k.
good call my friend,DVDA is not reporting any warnings. I will burn recaoture in V5 to see if it attenuated and report back. Thanks again so much!

Did you read the link in my earlier post? I think it will solve your the problem as state in your original post.
I started to and then in my "grasping for straws but drowning" I felt I didn't have time. The good news is, I just found out it doesn't have to be overnighted until tomorrow so I will go back and read the thread.
Thanks very much everyone...I'll be back with the results.
Randy
Former user wrote on 5/8/2007, 12:08 PM
You are welcome. Let us know how it comes up. Is the first time you have had a program on PBS?

Dave T2
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 12:31 PM
It's burning as I write
Is the first time you have had a program on PBS?
No, I've done the following:
- A 30 minute magazine that ran for 2 years called "A Closer Look"
-A 30 minute comedic/educational show called "What it takes" ( a bit like "Dirty Jobs", ie what it takes to be a firefighter, a race car driver, etc (except funnier IMHO)) getting ready for it's 3rd season which we hope will soon go national.
And this project is the 2nd doc I've done. The first was a benefit concert for the wild fire victims in Texas.
This one is a benefit for the ranchers that were affected by last winter's blizzard in Colorado.
Both were organized by Micheal Martin Murphey (remember the songs "Wildfire", Geronimo's Cadillac", "Carolina in the Pines" from the 70s/80s?).
He's also been mentioned on David Letterman recently and is scheduled to appear next month. The good news for me is he's wanting to do a full feature movie with us (myself, my partner and a bunch of NMSU interns).
Wish us luck...hey, my DVD just popped out, I'll check the levels and report back.
Thanks again everyone,
Randy
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 12:37 PM
Well it's much better, on recapture it shows a level of -0.9
I'm going to bump up the volume that much in V5 and make another wav.
I'll be back...
Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 1:30 PM
Bumping up the master in V5 by +0.9 brought the level up to -0.7 (+0.2 difference)
I did the ac3 suggestions from Edward's site (from the other thread that John Meyer suggested) and although I didn't burn a DVD I can see by the audio graphics on the timeline in DVDA it's not going to be hot enough.
I think I'll wind up just using the -0.7 and say to heck with it; I would think there could be variables on different DVD players that can affect levels also right?
Any further suggestions are certainly welcome.
Thanks again everyone,
Randy
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/8/2007, 1:45 PM

Wow, that's the kind'a thing that drives men to an early grave. I'd really like to know what's going on here with this audio level problem.


Randy Brown wrote on 5/8/2007, 2:00 PM
Wow, that's the kind'a thing that drives men to an early grave. I'd really like to know what's going on here with this audio level problem.
I'm trying a 24 bit file now (more headroom is my logic...either that or I'm grasping for straws again).
0.9db is not a big difference to one's ear but I'd like to have it exact since this is going to a station that I haven't delt with before.
I'll report back on the results regardless. Reporting back: result is minimal, V5 set to 0db shows up as -.07 when recatured.

Any thoughts on the possibility of discrepancies of different DVD players; or are they all the same (digital being all Xs and 0s)

Thanks,
Randy

Edit: On second thought does it even matter.
I mean, I've never been at a station when they make these dubs but if they want the tone to be 0db and the levels of the project to be -3 db avg (but not to exceed 0db) could it be that the 0db is what they set/adjust(raising or lowering input level) their "dubber" to and then the -3db would be right?
I should ask the station but I know someone here knows ...and may save me the embarrassment : )