SUN & CLOUDS WREAK HAVOC IN SHOT!

Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/11/2009, 8:29 AM

I recently shot some youth interviews for a client. The client insisted we shoot them in the lobby in front of a giant mosaic mural by some "famous" artist. Directly across from the mural was a large bank of windows and glass doors.

If you don't like the weather here in Miami, stick around, it will change in a few minutes. That means the sun is constantly going in and out from behind the clouds this time of year. It shows in the footage.

Below are two images--one with the sun out (bright) and one with the sun behind the clouds (dark).





I notice the change in lighting in the video, others may not, as they didn't on location (but I doubt it).

My question is: Is there was way to correct the darker images? My only concern is that it moves from bright to dark slowly. How on earth would one make the intermediate adjustments from brightest to darkest without making things worse? Is it even possible?

Or should I just leave it as it is, as that's the way it happened?

Thanks!


Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 9/11/2009, 8:49 AM
A high end production would have used (very expensive) HMIs and silks to avoid the problem, but in my experience the natural variations in lighting are OK as long as the exposure doesn't change so much that it becomes a distraction.

I can't tell from the two stills, but I would guess that it would be OK as-is, recommend you do a test showing to someone whose tastes you know.

If you felt a need, you could create continuity with keyframed "color corrections" (best done with curves if possible, but you could probably get away with just some simple contrast tweaking).
Earl_J wrote on 9/11/2009, 9:17 AM
Hello Jay,
three ways I would approach it...
1 - in the setup shots/introduction, make sure you pan across the big windows and the mosaic to demonstrate to the viewers that the big windows are behind you when you're making the interviews... in that fashion, even if they do notice the slight differences indicated in the two shots you posted, they know it's coming from the sunlight variations and not the actual videographing...
2 - get a couple of those halogen work lights from Lowe's or Home Depot for a $100 or so and keep them handy on location for just such a situation... if the light isn't dependable, bring your own... (grin) I know it doesn't help you now... perhaps in the future...
3 - as Coursedesign indicates... use keyframes for the adjustments over the most obvious violations (he would) and leave the rest alone (I would)...

They don't look that bad to me - especially if the viewers understand the source of the lighting during the interviews...

Until that time... Earl J.
Grazie wrote on 9/11/2009, 9:21 AM
Maybe this is a completely stupid idea, but here goes . .

1] Place the same Event on 2 Tracks

2] Make Track1 a Parent to Track2

NOW, is it at all possible to allow these 2 tracks to automatically interact, through some type of composting for one to "correct" the other. Like an almost a self-regulating interactive Levels Fx? Maybe there is a need to add a further track?

I said it was a stupid idea .. but yah never know . . .

Grazie
Earl_J wrote on 9/11/2009, 9:35 AM
Hello Grazie,
hmmm... like a leveling of the sound track... except we're adjusting the video track to a specific exposure level... That would be neat...

Not so stupid, but I don't think Vegas can do that sort of thing... hmmm... perhaps a third-party add-on?

I do like the idea... it can't bring in detail that has been blown out - or lighten dark areas captured without any detail ... but certainly take a series of decent clips from different times of the day (or light levels) and bring them to a similar (although not exact) exposure/contrast level...

Your track idea won't work for this situation, since the light parts are light in both copies and the dark areas are dark in both copies, so there isn't any way for either to compensate for the other... now, for taking a single clip, determining the low light level and the high light level and bring them both to a moderate point to apply to the entire clip - that might work... and should work...
It might even work by doing it manually...
Hey! Your two track idea will work...
Determine the highlight level for one track - apply that to the entire clip of one track... use the color corrector to give you the numbers...or another appropriate tool...
Determine the low light level for the other track - apply that to the entire clip of the other track... here again use the color corrector to give you the numbers... or the other appropriate tool...
Adjust the transparency of high light track (if on top) to moderate the levels in the lower track...
That could work, no? OR even set both tracks to 50% transparency, no?
Not automagically or self-regulating as you desire... but doable, no?

Until that time... Earl J.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/11/2009, 9:45 AM
A high end production would have used (very expensive) HMIs and silks to avoid the problem, but in my experience the natural variations in lighting are OK as long as the exposure doesn't change so much that it becomes a distraction.

Bjorn, I'm very well aware of what a "high end production" would have done. This was NOT a high end prodction. Such comments are totally unnecessary and not the least bit helpful.


baysidebas wrote on 9/11/2009, 10:38 AM
I've had a similar experience on many an occasion. The speaker moves between a podium and center stage while delivering his speech. The lighting at the podium is between 1 and 2 stops below center stage. I adjust levels with keyframing whenever he moves, not to completely match levels, but to bring the levels within half a stop or so. Using the center stage illumination as the standard I make a levels correction for the podium and save it as a preset (to avoid having to do it from scratch every time he moves). It's then a simple matter to insert keyframes at the start and end of each movement, letting Vegas smoothly vary the level as he walks from one position to the other.
Coursedesign wrote on 9/11/2009, 10:39 AM
I apologize for being educational.

It's in my blood, but I will try to control it better to give everyone the absolute minimum of information in order to not be offensive.

I'm still hopeful that HMIs will come down in price (or some other technology that can provide "daylight" efficiently).

Note also that you can also use inexpensive ($99 on eBay) "pre-owned" tungsten broads with full CTB gels.

Oops, I did it again.

Can you forgive a $99 solution? (OK, there is also $6.50 for the CTB gel?)
Grazie wrote on 9/11/2009, 11:57 AM
Earl you got my drift. I was thinking of an intra-mask to develop a "clamp" on luminance. We have audio normalization - that's digital? Why not the same for a combo of chrominance and luminance? I can say this stuff 'cos I don't really understand the actual maths within it. It really scares the XXXX off of Glenn!

Grazie
Grazie wrote on 9/11/2009, 11:58 AM
Sorry Jay! Great head shots!

If I had a few seconds of the variables then I can waste me time over the weekend . . .

Grazie
winrockpost wrote on 9/11/2009, 12:26 PM
simple if the project has b-roll , if not just lighten up the dark or darken up the light and keyframe for the gradual change.
Tech Diver wrote on 9/11/2009, 1:21 PM
If I had to do it I would begin with taking a still image of the frame with the "correct" exposure. I would then place it on a track above the footage that you want to adjust and create a Bezier mask to show some of the track below (a horizontal cut along the center would probably work best). This is so you can visually compare the two images at the same time. Now stretch out this "reference track" to more or less match the length of the track below it. Drop a filter like "Brightness and Contrast" or "Color Corrector" onto the track that need adjusting and keyframe the footage to match the reference track above it.

Peter
rmack350 wrote on 9/11/2009, 1:26 PM
The footage is already in the can (or whatever you youngsters put your tapeless media in these days...) so throwing lights at it doesn't matter.

If the background stays the same throughout I'd probably start by measuring some of it and then keyframing a curves filter. Usually cloudcover like this is somewhat gradual so it seems like it might lend itself to keyframes.

You might just try to lessen the exposure changes rather than trying to kill them.

I'll bet After Effects has a way to automate this.

Rob
rmack350 wrote on 9/11/2009, 1:31 PM
Good idea. I often work this way in photoshop by pasting a swatch into a layer above the image I'm adjusting.

The only problem is that in interviews you often alternate from wides to medium/close shots but if the background stays relatively constant this wouldn't be too hard to judge.

I still think I wouldn't try to completely erase the exposure changes. It'd be easier to just make them more palatable. Too bad you don't have a view outdoors. Seeing the clouds in the shot would motivate the lighting changes.
farss wrote on 9/11/2009, 2:27 PM
Mike Crash has an auto levels plugin. Never tried it myself but worh a shot.

Was this shot with an EX?
If so how was the camera setup?
The auto knee could make simple correction difficult.
I sort of had this discussion with another EX user yesterday. As illumination varies skin texture changes.

Bob.
GlennChan wrote on 9/11/2009, 8:40 PM
If you have the time, you can do something like this:
http://www.glennchan.info/Proofs/forums/sony/cc-comp.jpg

Adjust levels first.

Use curves to fake some extra contrast into the flatter shot.

Use the secondary CC to:
Fake the highlights on the subject's face
Adjust the background colors so that they are darker and match the other shot's colors.
Jeff_Smith wrote on 9/11/2009, 9:10 PM
That is very impressive. It looks a bit over corrected to me, but it illustrates your point.
PeterWright wrote on 9/12/2009, 3:40 AM
Keyframing changes to try and exactly match with varying speeds and types of natural light change is very tricky unless Grazie's idea of auto correction becomes feasible.
I've spent many hours trying to achieve similar corrections, and ended up going back to the original untouched footage using, as Earl described, occasional wide shots of the area from inside and out, to remind the dear viewers where we are. If you don't have many of these and it's local, Jay, you could nip back and get some B-roll.
craftech wrote on 9/12/2009, 4:56 AM
To me all of this is overkill. It doesn't look bad. You don't want to have effects that are more noticeable than the interview. Most people are listening to the interview. Videographers are paying attention to the minutia similar to a few tech people who are watching the equipment in my Home Theater rather than the movie.

I would simply adjust only the gamma and be done with it.

John