Survey: What's your favorite Transition(s) for a picture montage?

Vidmar wrote on 12/17/2004, 11:57 AM
Survey: What's your favorite Transition(s) for a picture montage?

I’m in the final stages of putting together a picture montage of a trip to Alaska. The project consists of about 370 pictures and a few videos. I used the VASST Ultimate S “Picture Montage” script to help with adding a bunch of transitions to the project and it defaults to the “page turn” transition for all pictures. But I think the project needs a bit of variety.

What I would like to know is: What transition(s) do you prefer for this type of a project?

I don’t want my audience to cringe when a transition is about to occur, but yet I want to make it an interesting experience for them as well.

Thanks for your input.
Vidmar

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 12/17/2004, 1:58 PM
I'd have to say that overall i prefer a gentle fade, not too short and not too long. Any other sorts of transitions and i find myself watching the transitions rather than the images. With simple crossfades i'll watch the pictures and not the editing.
TorS wrote on 12/17/2004, 2:21 PM
Simple crossfades.
And I often make them short and later think that I should have made them longer - but then it's too late - and a while after that, I think they're just fine. And that's because they drive the tempo up instead of down.
Tor
mjroddy wrote on 12/17/2004, 2:33 PM
Vote for simple cross fades from here as well. But it depends on the feel of the project. If it's fun and bouncy, you can get away with some tricky-zippy transitions. If it's serious, you definately want to keep the transitions subtle. A page peal is good for marking time transitions or "a change of chapters." For over 300 pics, I can't see myself watching 300 page turns.
My current phylosophy on video is to keep it simple and elegant. But again, it depends on the mood you're trying to convey.
That_Kid wrote on 12/17/2004, 2:42 PM
Most of the time I like regular fades, for weddings and other things it really sets the "mood". I will use some others as well but simple fades is the one for me.
BillyBoy wrote on 12/17/2004, 2:59 PM
It depends on how long your slideshow is. If you're talking scores or even hundreds of pictures doing no transitions or just simple crossfades is BORING with a capital B. The idea is don't over use and pick one or two for the project, don't try to use a whole bunch in one project. As far as length, my opinion, most that I see are too short. If a transation just zips past in a half a second or a second, why bother? Again how long depends on what you are transitioning from/to. I find that somewhere between 2 and 2 and a half seconds seems right most of the time.
PeterWright wrote on 12/17/2004, 4:47 PM
As BillyBoy demonstrates, it's very much a personal taste issue. As I learnt at film school, the most dynamic transition is a cut, but if you don't want to be too dynamic, cross fades are fine. For me, 300 cheesy transitions would be terrible - I'd only use one if there was a particular relationship between consecutive pictures.

As far as length of transition, I use the music to decide pacing, and to determine when transitions happen - 1 sec is a good starting point.
scissorfighter wrote on 12/17/2004, 5:05 PM
Yup, crossfade 99% of the time. Depending on your content and the "feel" of the piece, you could always mix it up a bit once in a while with some wacked-out twirl-in or something. You know, for that shot from the Alaskan cruise where you're dancing on the table with the belly-dancer...
RalphM wrote on 12/17/2004, 5:16 PM
I cringe when someone tells me about a video that had "all these neat transitions". I want to scream - AMATEUR!!!!

I agree, cuts and simple cross fades. I do a lot of slide shows and video montages, and I would much rather use a subtle zoom on a still to add some variety than a "spiffy" transition. Then, of course, I saw a 50 slide montage that had the same zoom on every still. Everythihg in moderation.

I rarely use a straight cut, using instead an almost imperceptable cross fade of a few frames. Seems to look better....
Orcatek wrote on 12/17/2004, 5:26 PM
I too vote for the cross-fades. If there are different "segments" or theme areas in the montage, then use some other one(s) - a pizzaz one to signal the change. ie - 12 pics of a glacier all cross fade, then spin to bear photo squence which is 7 long all cross fade, etc. Just a thought.

Basically using the difference in transistions to provide a clue to the viewer that something new is coming. Depending on the logic groups and sub groups you may end up with 3 or 4 fades for the whole production.

goshep wrote on 12/17/2004, 6:28 PM
Crossfades. I almost feel guilty about all the fancy transitions collecting dust that are never used. As was mentioned a few times, pacing the fades to the tempo of the music is a dramatic effect. e.g. a music piece is 4/4 time, I'll begin the fade at the first beat of the measure and complete it on the last.
daharvey wrote on 12/17/2004, 7:38 PM
Crossfades. Keep them simple and devote more time to panning the photos. And do not pan during a transition.
nickle wrote on 12/17/2004, 8:24 PM
Ignore everybody, use Vegas as your canvas and be creative. Use all the fx and transitions to tell your story.

Make it your own.

Clock wipe changes time, flyin says hello, flyout says goodbye, tumble in brings something distant to the forefront,
barn door closing ends something, opening introduces something., a page peel reveals something.

Whatever you do, some will like it, some won't.

It's like a wedding video without a car chase and explosions, some like it, some don't.
goshep wrote on 12/17/2004, 8:40 PM
Umm...if he ignored everyone, it would defeat the purpose of asking their opinions in the first place. The weekend is here....I'm feeling punchy. ;)

OdieInAz wrote on 12/17/2004, 9:03 PM
I generally use crossfades, coupled with various degress of pan & zoom. If I'm synching to rather snappy, punchy music, then I think straight cuts are appropriate. For variety, I'll even do a couple of "The Kid Stays In The Picture" thing using PhotoShop and layers.

Sometimes, if I have a lot, I'll put the photos up in a 2x2 or 3x3 matrix undating each sub frame sequentially, sort of a "Brady Bunch" effect.

I set up preference to give me 7 sec duration with 2 sec overlaps, seems to work nice, but I'll lengthen as I see fit.
Grazie wrote on 12/17/2004, 9:10 PM
Let me preface with what follows by saying I really want you to succeed - I do!

The hardest thing in Art is understanding the concept of "Less". Once grasped, it is the most rewarding. Once realised it becomes the hardest taskmaster to translate into the "real" world - and in this particular case, that means video editing.

Sometimes it is obvious. As with any other "craft", exercised through an apprenticeship, the concept of "Less" can become second nature.

Just having access to the tools doesn't automatically make for a competent carpenter. A well sharpened chisel in the hands of a novice will make a bad tenon joint - it will be obvious. Unfortunately transitions will always "appear" well executed - time after unforgiving time. Just because they appear well done, is not the same as what "effect" they will have. What they can do to a video is completely different - they can destroy it.

* Transitions are not to be used for a paucity of good shots. They often are.

* Transitions can often work against the narrative. They can kill a story line. The irony here is that they are often badly employed in the strong belief that they do improve the narrative.

* Transitions often embarrassingly identify, and triple underline, the obvious lack of creativity and understanding of the filmic process, and the value that sensitive editing can produce for the audience to enjoy.

* Transitions can drive a "wedge" between the video and its audience destroying that intimate experience of wonder, excitement and drama.

My use?

* Plain old crossover using very VERY subtle fade - almost unrecognisable to a . . .

* Straight cut.

Try making a transition FROM the material - let the MATERIAL create a transistion. The Transition should be within the material . . yeah?

However . . . .

[ . . takes deep breath . . ] Why are you asking the question?

The other thing I would invite you to do is to really "see" how these are employed - OR NOT! - in broadcasted material. Your project is really calling out for the Mr Burns treatment. Pans and scans and motion on stills can be beautifully employed to create tension,drama and emotions - way beyond the transition . .. our eyes don't Page Peel .. well mine don't . . however they DO scan and refocus on stuff they want to! Yeah it is a lot more HARD thoughtful work . . but aint that always the case . . yeah?

Best regards,

Grazie
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/17/2004, 9:50 PM
Crossfades and dissolves, but linear wipes with a soft edge, any of the Pixelan stuff in softness is always good. cubes, 3D's, clockwipes...those are all very special purpose, IMO. More to define a scene change. So, if you've got a changing song, changing location....those all scream out for a single, fancy transition, but the majority of the rest should be soft.
Remember, you can build as many transition sets as you'd like in Ultimate S. Build a library of dissolves and soft wipes, apply them at random to selected areas.
Grazie wrote on 12/17/2004, 9:56 PM
Good points Spot. G
nickle wrote on 12/17/2004, 10:34 PM
I find the crossfade to be one of the most misused transitions out there.

Think of a clip with a child running crossfaded with a clip of a speeding car.

Or two clips with different horizons.

Or any views that cause blurriness trying to focus on two similar scenes.

I've seen crossfade after crossfade with overly long fades where you are viewing two scenes for so long you can get dizzy.

TielBr wrote on 12/17/2004, 10:35 PM
Agreed... I too use cross fades,... and for fast stuff, a simple cut is in order... but don't be at all afraid to make your stills be everything but stills with pan/crop. I fint this tool to be extremely usefull as long as your scanned material can suppord the zoom w/o becoming pixelated.

Again, I suppose that's just my taste though. The one thing I like about editing is that you get free artistic reign to create something that wasn't there before... and something that ultimately grabs people's attention. That's why I also believe that there are no "rules".
Grazie wrote on 12/17/2004, 11:00 PM
'That's why I also believe that there are no "rules". ' I disagree . .there are rules, but knowing them allows - well IMHO - to break them, when I want to. Perhaps rules should be renamed "guidelines" . . there yah go, we've done it already!

Great thread . . let's see where it will transition to next!

Grazie
FuTz wrote on 12/18/2004, 6:24 AM

One might not notice the transitions when watching, in my opinion.
If so, it should convey to the "I'm so eager to see the next picture" reaction. But again, it's the PICTURE one might be eager to see next, not the transition.
farss wrote on 12/18/2004, 6:58 AM
Well, I'm doing a DVD which is just stills and spken word. I'm sticking with simple cuts, this job is enough drama without adding more complications.
The stills are very high res, nearly enough to choke Vegas and my not so fast PC. Second thing is the AR of the stills is all over the place. When I've got a tall thin one to deal with I might do a sequenced reveal of say three copies of the still just to fill the 16:9 frame. I've added a duplicate of the stills on the track below with moderate blur to also fill the frame.
One advantage of cuts and stills, if you're going out to DVD you can push the bitrate very, very low and not loose quality. You could probably do it with fades as well with a low average and high max but that might take a bit of fiddling
cheroxy wrote on 12/18/2004, 7:07 AM
For family slideshows I usually use a crossfade as default then every third or fourth I throw in a different transistion. As stated many times here, too many is gaudy. A few add some spice. I think it is also good not to make it repetitious, ie-don't make every other or every third a new transition. Vary it up so that the viewer doesn't get into a rhythm.
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/18/2004, 7:46 AM
<<<<Vary it up so that the viewer doesn't get into a rhythm. >>>>

Actually, getting the viewer into a rhythm is a good thing, and is generally the goal of most film makers. Jar the viewer out of their rhythm occasionally so that the point being made is clear and carries impact, but then settle back to the rhythm for the more traditional portions of the view.
Driving at 55mph on the freeway is comfortable, and allows us to more fully enjoy the ride. Driving constantly at 100mph on the freeway means lots of slow downs and speed-ups, meaning we're concentrating on the road more than the experience. Bad video is like that, with the viewer feeling a sense of uncertainty. Some films, Blair Witch Project being a prime example, simply leave you exhausted but feeling like you didn't really see anything.