switching from 8bit-32bit changes preview

tunesmith1801 wrote on 12/22/2008, 7:55 AM
I have a project that I have color corrected, when I went to properties it said it was in 32bit, when I changed to 8bit the color changed, switch back to 32bit and it changes back. Should I have color corrected with this setting at 8bit, so I can render properly in 8bit?

I understand that rendering in 32bit will not make much of a difference. It made me wonder though when I saw the preview window change.

Jim

Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 12/22/2008, 8:03 AM
"32-bit will not make much of a difference."

If you have a hundred dollar bill in your pocket while wandering in the desert, that won't do you much good, but in the city you can definitely do stuff with it.

There have been great posts here through the past several years about when and how to use 32-bit, a forum search should give you the information you need.

farss wrote on 12/22/2008, 1:59 PM
The preview window changed because 32bit shifts the levels i.e. they're wrong. Hopefully you've graded the error out so I'd leave it as is (32bit). Render a short section and check how it looks on your target playback device e.g. a set top DVD player.

Bob.
GlennChan wrote on 12/22/2008, 4:29 PM
Information on what's happening with the levels:
http://www.glennchan.info/articles/vegas/v8color/v8color.htm

The preview in Vegas isn't necessarily accurate... this depends on what codecs you are using and how you are monitoring.
winrockpost wrote on 12/22/2008, 5:29 PM
ya know it amazes me that Glenn and Bob have repeatedly stated that the preview in vegas with 32 bit is wrong,, and no one from sony has either said they are full of it , or corrected the issue.. I don't think they are full of it.
very disturbing
TimTyler wrote on 12/22/2008, 6:46 PM
So does that mean 8.0c users should color-correct in 8-bit, then switch to 32 bit and render?
GlennChan wrote on 12/22/2008, 6:54 PM
32 bit is wrong
It's not really wrong.... you can figure out the levels yourself and get an accurate preview. Which you had to do before 32-bit (e.g. if you are working with DV, you should use an external monitor for 8-bit projects).

On the other hand, I disagree with the way levels are implemented in Vegas. Other NLEs will handle most of the levels conversions for you automatically. Whereas in Vegas, you have to do things manually and it is not very intuitive what you have to do. And I don't believe it is clearly documented.
IMO I don't like the design as it is very easy to do things that are wrong.
tunesmith1801 wrote on 12/22/2008, 8:17 PM
I am a bit confused with all of this. What is be the correct way to edit, color correct, and so forth, then render, to generally get the best quality?

Do the editing in 8bit, then render to 32?

Do it all in 8 or 32bit?

It seems there is no easy answer, but in general, what would be a good work flow.

Jim
GlennChan wrote on 12/22/2008, 10:10 PM
An easy way of doing things would be to use the 8-bit mode, and then use nesting or other alternatives if you need the benefits of 32-bit somewhere.

If you do want to output in 32-bit mode, then you can edit in 8-bit. *Before* you start doing any color correction, change your project over to 32-bit. The reason to do this is to edit at the speed of 8-bit mode, and because changing modes will change your levels.
I would stick with compositing gamma of 1.000.
Coursedesign wrote on 12/22/2008, 10:29 PM
What is be the correct way to edit, color correct, and so forth, then render, to generally get the best quality?

That is a bit like asking, "What's the best way to drive a car?" That's a big subject. Professional editors spend years slowly getting better at it.

As Glenn said, 32-bit can get you into a lot of trouble if you don't understand how to use it.

Success could then come from either taking the time to learn when and how to use 32-bit, or from just sticking with 8-bit because it will give you OK results without the hassle of learning.

Only you can decide which makes most sense for you. For most people it doesn't make any sense to spend time on learning 32-bit until they have improved so many other things about their editing.

It's a specialty tool for special situations.

Not a general purpose advanced whoopee picture improver.

tunesmith1801 wrote on 12/23/2008, 5:02 AM
Thanks for all of your help.

I hope I am understanding this correctly.

32-bit works better on specific things.

8-bit works better when editing.

Switching between the two can create problems, like levels, that need to be addressed before rendering.

I still have some questions, will 32-bit render a project with only color correction applied better "in general' than in 8-bit?

My last project I did totally in 32-bit, I did notice the editing was sluggish.

Will 32-bit be the standard in the future for Vegas.

Thanks,
Jim
farss wrote on 12/23/2008, 5:33 AM
"Switching between the two can create problems, like levels, that need to be addressed before rendering."

Not quite, in 32bit your levels can be simply wrong.

"I still have some questions, will 32-bit render a project with only color correction applied better "in general' than in 8-bit?"

In general no. If your source material is 8 bit there's not much at all to be gained and you can loose a lot. Keep in mind that the average HD display is probably not even 8 bit.

"Will 32-bit be the standard in the future for Vegas."

If you mean the default I sure hope not. it seems to cause a lot of confusion just having it as an option. I live in hope it'll get fixed.

Bob.
TimTyler wrote on 12/23/2008, 9:20 AM
I think it is remarkable and absurd that there is NO official Sony documentation on this feature.

THIS is the sort of thing that prevents Vegas Pro from leading the market. The best, most advanced software features can't help anybody if people don't know how to use them properly.
tunesmith1801 wrote on 12/23/2008, 11:58 AM
Two responses from Sony Technical support:

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. The 32-bit floating point setting allows greater precision for processing video, but requires significantly more processing power than working with 8-bit video.

32-bit floating point is recommended when working with 10-bit YUV input/output or when using xvYCC/x.v.Color media.

"When using 8-bit input/output, the 32-bit floating point setting can prevent banding from compositing that contains fades, feathered edges, or gradients.

Video plug-ins and media generators that do not support floating-point processing are indicated by a blue icon in the Plug-In Manager and Plug-In Chooser with this icon in the Video FX and Media Generators windows.

If you're creating a 32-bit project, you can increase performance during by using the 8-bit setting during editing and switching to 32-bit floating point before performing color correction, compositing adjustments, or rendering."

"Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. I would recommend editing in 8-bit to lessen the stain on your system resources, then before color correcting or rendering, switch to 32-bit. 32-bit floating point setting can prevent banding from composting that contains fades, feathered edges, or gradients, giving you the best possible rendered file."

Jim