Julius, Vic has a lot more experience than me and his approach makes a lot of sense. But I'll offer an alternative that has worked for me.

Like you, I now shoot tapeless. I put all of my individual clips (files) in a new folder I set up for each project's media. Then I create a Media Manager library for that project and import all the project's clips. Next I preview each clip (usually just the first few seconds of each) and tag each with its purpose (e.g., b-roll, ceremony, photo shoot, guest interviews, bridal party intro, etc.)

Along the way if I see a clip I definitely know I want to use I will give it a 5 star rating. Then, for example, as I am working on the bridal party intro, I filter on that tag, bring each clip into the trimmer, trim as needed and pop it onto the timeline. Once I've got everything on the timeline I may rearrange and do final trim adjustments as required.

Typically, I will create multiple Vegs, one for each major section of the event, and nest them into a parent veg because I find it easier for me to keep things straight that way.

One significant limitation of using the Media Manager is you can't tag segments within a clip (e.g., subclips or regions). That's an oversight that I hope is corrected in a future release.

/jerry

The workflows described by Vic and TeeTime are very satisfactory. What isn't clear to me is the substance of your problem, and I'm puzzled that you find cutting in the trimmer preferable. Perhaps you should detail your present workflow. I download cards to two (or more) HDD (one HDD can be put away for safekeeping), the contents of each card being put into a separate file. Each file is then brought into Vegas through "project media". At that point all the "captured" clips will be highlighted in project media and if you drag them to the timeline they will be in shooting order. So at this point you'll have precisely the same result as you would from tape (assuming your tape capture recognised when the camera was paused and inserted clip breaks). It is now easy to work through deleting, rearranging and trimming. Using the media manager to classify clips is a very useful way to make life easier when you're wanting a cut-away or specific type of shot for a sequence, but if you're just cutting in strict time sequence (such as Vic assigns to an assistant) then the setup time will not be rewarding.

Tapeless is the only way to go. Once you learn the time line you will never go back. Just place your b-roll of your wedding in folders like brides house, grooms house, church pre, church wedding, ect. I have a master veg file saved on my desk top that already has all my bins labeled in the project media tab. I can find all my clips very easy. You just need to be organized in saving your files to your hard drive. The more organized the faster it goes.

i'm pretty much in agreement with serena and mikey - even if i don't do weddings, some of my doco work involves many hours of material, etc.,

i shoot tape AND cf (tape as archive in my case). i bring the footage in using cf utility tool, direct to a named folder within a 'project folder' (where EVERYTHING will reside - great for backing up and simply opening any time in the future). btw. i create as many of these footage folders as necessary.

once in, i then (if necessary), move clips between 'footage folders' till i have them pretty much sorted, (using wmp, vlc, what have you) at which point i then bulk rename clips within folders to something that makes sense to me.

thereafter, i start a new project and import all my folder footage in to like bins. i save this as 'setup'. if i have additional media i'm likely to need, i import that at the same time - incl. music). from then on i edit as normal, saving every 'edited version' with a new name.

all this can easily be archived / backed up on an ex hd, and the tapes on the shelf let me sleep at night.

now, whether this is too long winded for weddings i have no idea, but in my case i have found it infallible.

then again, i always roll a pair of socks together after they're washed....

Ah indeed. I said "file" when I meant "folder". Weddings are documentaries too, although rather more stressful; possibly akin to "war correspondent". I've just agreed to shoot a relative's wedding and regretting it already!

I've never played with the Project Media but it still sounds like I need to pop everything in the Timeline...here's my work flow with Tape:

-I use Sclive to capture the tape as 1 large avi file (from Groom to Reception).

-I pop the 1 avi file in the Trimmer and I start scrubbing and taking scenes that I like and add it to the timeline. I start every wedding with an intro, which is basically random scenes through-out the day in random order..doing this in trimmer is SUPER fast and easy as I can jump from the beginning to the end in one click.. Just scrub and pick what I like and I see how I am progressing to the end of the song that is on the timeline.


Using the project media to rate each clip will take me a lifetime and I don't know how many clips I'll need when making the Intro..and then if I do put it all on the timeline, I'd have to remove the clips I don't want...using multiple vegs files is very messy as I don't the feel on the final work (i.e. did I already use that song?)

Another issue, is if I'm missing a segment (i.e. Bride's house) and now I want to insert it between the groom's house and the church, I'd have to add all the bride's clips to my timeline and make it clunky...and the ripple doesn't always do a great job when you have audio velocity.

I just find the trimmer a very handy tool and I can zip thru editing fairly quickly..

I'll give the project media a try and try to stay positive as best as I can.

When you say "project media" I think you mean "media manager". Personally I'd hate to work with one huge avi file but clearly you have found it suits your formula and perhaps you're working against the clock. I would have thought that the intro would be the last sequence to be assembled. It is interesting that you cut to a music track without any prior assembly. In your example, I don't understand why you would need to add all the bride's clips to the timeline if you wanted only a shot of her house; surely you simply add the clip of her house? Perhaps you should step back from your usual workflow and spend a bit of time exploring those methods detailed above.

EDIT: Thinking a little more about your workflow I can see that your situation is a little different to documentary shooting. You're shooting and cutting to a formula so you know your material pretty much without having to review it. So you just run through grabbing clips for your standard assembly. Going tapeless all clips are separated and you will load them into Vegas via Project Media, but they will lie there in time sequence and displayed as thumbnails. So the content of each will be fairly obvious from the thumbnail and the time/clip sequence, and each can be reviewed and trimmed in the trimmer prior to placing on the timeline; you don't need to add any superfluous material. The usefulness of the Media Manager is that you can classify and sort clips into categories (e.g. bride's preparation), but this will be add little value when you are shooting and cutting material to a formula.

>The usefulness of the Media Manager is that you can classify and sort clips into categories (e.g. bride's preparation), but this will be add little value when you are shooting and cutting material to a formula.

Serena, this is true but to me the real value of the Media Manager is that a clip can be in multiple categories. So, for some editing approaches you might want a particular shot of the bride to assigned each of these categories:

- bride
- wedding party
- humorous
- medium shot

I might have 20 clips that are tagged humorus. Some of bride, some the guests, etc. But if I am creating an outtakes section I would filter on the "humorus" tag. For the credits section I might want to see all that are tagged "wedding party".

This type of categorization best serves me because I often evolve how I am going to put a documentary together after I start editing. If it is mostly a video with the same sequence as it was shot then MM is definitely overkill.

/jerry

>I use Sclive to capture the tape as 1 large avi file (from Groom to Reception).

Julius, that looks like a good technique. There might be another way you could do this in Vegas. First, as mentioned before, drag all your clips from the project media into the timeline. They will be placed end-to-end in shot sequence. Then, as you scrub through select your region of interest, right click and "open in trimmer". It will retain the selection in the trimmer. Then press the A key to add the clip to the selected track. I'd have to fiddle with this to see if it is any better, but it saves you from having to stitch the individual clips together into a single AVI.

/jerry

TeeTime, I appreciate your use of Media Manager and use it the same way myself (as presumably does everyone who employs it). It seems that Julius wants to put on his timeline only his selected clips (quite reasonable) and using tape he has just one huge clip that he cuts up in trimmer. This works because his material is in sequence and the final cut largely follows that sequence; a quick and predictable path to the final product. So he doesn't want to cut on the timeline and having each shot as a separate clip doesn't fit his workflow. Of course he could put all clips on the timeline and render them out as a single avi, and so get back to his way of cutting (but I hope that doesn't appeal).
I think the way forward is to change the default option/preferences for a double click on a clip (in Project Media or Media Manager) to load it into the trimmer (instead of onto the timeline). This allows a clip to be viewed (if the thumbnail isn't sufficient) and trimmed before being dragged to the timeline.