Text Clarity Lost after Rendering

shooter71 wrote on 9/1/2005, 7:23 PM
I have added text to a video project in Vegas Studio 6.0 Platinum Edition and when previewing in Vegas, the text looks clear. After the project is rendered and added to DVD Architect, the text becomes fuzzy and hard to read during DVD Architect preview. If the project is completed and burned on a DVD, the text looks fuzzy on the TV as well. Any thoughts on how to correct this?

The text is not a scrolling text, but I have done "credits" with the same issue as well

This same issue occured when I was running Vegas Studio 4.0 as well.

Comments

StormMarc wrote on 9/1/2005, 8:24 PM
Is this on a motion menu brought into DVD Architect that you are having problems?

If so DVD Architect has a major bug in that it renders the motion menus at lower quality than the regular video and text elements come out jagged. It's really a bummer and I have moved back to Reel DVD which does not have this problem on motion menus.

Marc
johnmeyer wrote on 9/1/2005, 9:32 PM
Check out this post from Sony, just a few days ago:

Major Flaw in DVD Architect
shooter71 wrote on 9/1/2005, 9:37 PM
No, it is not a motion menu.

It is text that I have added to my videos such as dates, titles, etc. that is done in Vegas. The file that is being previewed while in DVD Architect is what was exported out of Vegas and since it is just being previewed right after it is imported into DVD, I would not think that DVD has done any rendering to it yet. This leads me to believe that what is being rendered out of Vegas is blurry.

But as long as you brought it up, what veresion of DVD Architect have you tried in which menus come out jagged. I just upgraded to 3.0.
StormMarc wrote on 9/2/2005, 10:02 AM
I'm using 3.0. The reason I asked if it was a motion menu is because motion menus made in Vegas (or any other edit program) and brought into DVD Architect as MPEG-2 and used as motion menus will still be rerendered and the bug will show up. This applies to motion menus only.

Check out the link above. Sony is on it so it should not be an issue soon.

Marc
shooter71 wrote on 9/2/2005, 10:32 AM
I am assuming that in non-menu related cases, you have not experienced the clarity issue than. If anyone may be able to help with keeping standard text clear after rendering in Vegas, i would appreciate any other feedback.

Liam_Vegas wrote on 9/2/2005, 2:53 PM
I've generally not experienced the issue you are referencing. I can get good looking titles using Vegas's Text Generator... however I find that I can make better looking titles using Boris Grafitti - not sure what that says.....

Also check the Article Great Titles with the DV Codec over on the "COW"

And... I don't think anyone has asked this... What template are you using when you render for DVDA?

Hopefully NOT the "default" MPEG2 template? That template has a ridiculous (bad) setting for the quality. I doubt whether you are... because I suspect you may have noticed a degradation in your video - let alone just the titles.
shooter71 wrote on 9/2/2005, 3:21 PM
I am rendering to avi which I believes answers your one question. I have already reviewed the Great Titles with DV Codec, thanks. If anyone would be willing to email me directly at shooter00@msn.com, I would be willing to email back out a small avi file that shows how bad the text looks whichmay shed some thoughts.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 9/2/2005, 3:47 PM
Try uploading the AVI to Chienworks VegasUsers.com site
Chienworks wrote on 9/2/2005, 3:50 PM
Sorry, AVI files are automatically rejected. However, if it's tiny enough (say, under 10MB, which is about 3 seconds of DV) you can email it to workbench@vegasusers.com and i'll post it.
shooter71 wrote on 9/2/2005, 5:04 PM
I emailed the file which I made very short to get it to only 4 MEG so the text will be shown for a very short time, but still visible enough to see the blurriness. Thank you for posting it.
Chienworks wrote on 9/2/2005, 5:09 PM
Arrggggg!!! Sorry, i had the address wrong. It will work now though, so please resend it. Thanks!
shooter71 wrote on 9/2/2005, 8:25 PM
It was just resent.
Chienworks wrote on 9/3/2005, 12:01 AM
http://vegasusers.com/testbench/files/shooter71-tape5_2004_oct-nov_temp.avi

Ah-ha! You didn't tell us the text was red. What you are seeing are the effects of DV compression. Small red details are always blurred in DV. Making the text substantially larger or using a more neutral color will help a lot.
shooter71 wrote on 9/3/2005, 4:25 AM
As usual, a picture always helps to see what I was not able to.

Thank you for all those that responded; swithing to white or other has helped.

In other forum messages that related to text clarity, other suggestions were to use text with a solid outline to help defne. Is the only way to do this is to use the "text/draw outline" editior and increase the "width" to create a solid outline. This works, but it again, appears to place a soft edge around the text verses a hard edge as usually seen in something like Word.
farss wrote on 9/3/2005, 6:17 AM
Part of the problem is the limitations of the video system and another part of it is how you feed the video signals around. Composite video is the worst by far, component gives way better results but of course you have to work to get good results on the worst case signal path.
Putting the right sort of edge on the text helps to smooth out the change in video levels, you'll see it used a lot on TV. Of course a blue outline on red text will make things worse. Several tricks, have adjoining colors from the same side of the color wheel, don't render text to DV and then encode from that, delay adding text until the final project and then render directly to mpeg-2. Avoid fonts with fine details that can get lost.
Lastly remember that video is very low resolution particularly compared to what is seen on most PC monitors.
Hope this helps.
Bob.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 9/3/2005, 10:01 AM
I said;
Also check the Article

Shooter... you said:
I have already reviewed the Great Titles with DV Codec, thanks

I would suggest you need to look more carefully at the tutorial again... following the advice in there should have saved you from yourself.
shooter71 wrote on 9/3/2005, 11:23 AM
Looking at the tutorial was helpful in some regards, but even the red and other bright colors looked much better than what I was able to reproduce; which was leading me to believe the color red was not the problem but another setting.

The tutorial was also showing a "Keyline" which is what my last post was looking to accomplish, but maybe I can not do Keylines in Vegas Studio 6?
Liam_Vegas wrote on 9/3/2005, 11:37 AM
Hmm... maybe not... I did not realize your were using "Vegas Studio 6" (to be honest I did not even know that product name existed... I guess they changed it from MovieStudio).

In the full version you can specify an outline setting for the text. Is that what you are trying to do? It won't be called Keyline anyway... try looking for "Outline" settings on the Tab. You have to enable the outline... choose an appropriate color... and make sure "feathering" is very low or off.

One of the most critical parts of the tutorial was dealing with the color values... and making sure that you do not go over 235 in terms of any of the color settings.

In the end... ALL the points there are valid and you should definitely look at utilizing all the advice given.
shooter71 wrote on 9/3/2005, 11:59 AM
Sorry, I was abreviating, it is actually called Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Edition, Version 6.

The outline you are referring to is indeed in the Studio version, and even with light or modified feathering, it did not look as good as the in the reference article which called it "Keyline" which evidently is the same as "Outine" in Vegas which I am already playing with.