the CML forum

Serena wrote on 11/13/2005, 5:20 PM
Probably most of you at least peruse the CML forum, and one of the things I don't find there is any recognition of Vegas. I find statements such as "no NLE can yet accept 24p" and the following might contain snippets to spark interest:

"Just a few ideas for thread names as I am sitting right here thinking on it.. fwiw:

CML- 1/3inch HD CCD(s)/CMOS
CML- 2/3inch HD CCD(s)/CMOS
CML- 1 inch HD CCD(s)

Perhaps various Forums could have sub-topics, ie, NLE's for all the various formats. This might encourage the vendors to pop in if such a venue is generated for them to do so. It's nice to hear the NLE topic from Bob M at JVC Professional, but unfortunately, that information is not happening in real time. I'm doing some interesting and sweeping tests on alot of these subjects, and as of this very minute, we have not been able to capture JVC HDV 720p/24p in ANY NLE, nor have we been successful in using the most up to date Miranda firmware to pull the JVC 24p material from a JVC HDV deck, through the Miranda HD Bridge, and into a D5 workflow. This is not a pointing fingers situation, but if the venue was correct, then perhaps Miranda might pop in an alert the CML community that they are very close to allowing 24p HDV content to be recognized by their product and or firmware upgrade. And they could do so that same day. (We were using a prototype Miranda Box, so the box may have been the reason the crash, rather then the firmware itself). Likewise with Premier Pro/Main Concepts, FCP and Lumiere, Avid, Canopus, Convergent Designs.... the list goes on and on. But until these vendors have the venue, we are throwing darts blindfolded into a busy NYC subway car.

At the end of the day, CML needs to evolve at the same pace as the technogies that are unvield every day. We're all busy, but collectively, this can happen.

On a final note. If anyone has an HDTV or HD monitor with a DVI port, then I highly suggest spending $99 on an HDMI DVD player which "upscales" all of our SD DVD's into what they claim to be 720p/1080i. (Circuit City/Best Buy, etc) Is it true uprezz or true HD? Hell no, but until Blue Ray/HD DVD's, this is a phenomonal $99 investment.

Taylor Wigton
DP, Los Angeles"

Comments

farss wrote on 11/14/2005, 2:58 AM
Seeing as how everyone here is asleep, I'll bite!
Where, why and what is "the CML forum"?

Bob.
Serena wrote on 11/14/2005, 3:32 AM
Ah, apologies -- I just assumed that people would be familiar with the Cinematographers Mailing List. The easiest way to describe it to you is to give you the link:
CML
farss wrote on 11/14/2005, 12:43 PM
Thanks, and I thought it was Citizens Military League.
Bob.
TimTyler wrote on 11/14/2005, 2:13 PM
Taylor,

I run the Cinematography.com site and forum, and you won't find much talk there regarding NLE's either. Most DP's and camera department people consider NLE entirely out of their job description. That's beginning to change a little as cinematographers begin to use digital cameras for feature film and television aquisition though.

I have seen other users on cinematography.com recommend Vegas as an NLE though :) Do a search on 'sony vegas' and you'll see http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?act=Search
logiquem wrote on 11/14/2005, 2:54 PM
Vegas is very very frequently mentioned as the best NLE for 24 P editing in the excellent http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/ forums.

In fact, when somebody talk about some 24 P editing difficulties, they're is often a reply like "why not using Vegas?..."

Serena wrote on 11/14/2005, 4:29 PM
I mentioned the CML fora because many Vegas users are cinematographers as well as editors, so experiences and technical developments in cinematography are of general interest. Or so I think. Possibly, as a cinematographer, I'm just assuming everyone shares my approach! I'd missed references to Vegas in CML, perhaps because I've been concentrating on the HD and HDV fora. Certainly CML is for those professionally engaged in production, but many such are involved in this forum and so meet your membership requirement.
Serena
Spot|DSE wrote on 11/15/2005, 7:17 AM
After being a member of a couple CML lists in the past, and re-upping after your post, I remember why I left before. Obviously the community is made up of professionals, but also heavily made up of people who have determined XYZ without actually having ever even *touched* XYZ. There is a fairly long thread there about how HDV will never be used for broadcast, never be 'professional' and how the bitrate prevents it from being useful at all.
Clueless on this particular subject.
Coursedesign wrote on 11/15/2005, 8:24 AM
Spot,

That sounds more like cinematography.com, which is more of a daily discussion, often involving film students, than cinematography.net which is more of a long term resource for getting good, lasting information in key areas for professional cinematographers.

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/15/2005, 8:34 AM
No, it's cinematography.net
http://www.cinematography.net/index.htm

The discussions on NLE's and HDV are simply absurd. While the other forums are great, these two particular fora are spending a lot of bandwidth on issues in which they are clueless. Check em' out...Like I said, a LOT of the discussions are useful, but they're also fairly irrelevant to what most of us are doing. I suppose it would be akin to this forum having heavy discussion on Angenieux primes and their relevance to Genesis/HDCAM SR. It's just not in the realm of this forum's average activity. As HDV and editing isn't in theirs.
Serena wrote on 11/15/2005, 3:26 PM
Ah, indeed, DSE. I had wondered why you didn't get in there to straighten them out! I watched hopefully and didn't dive in myself for I reckoned that if you didn't then obviously these were issues about which I was too ignorant. I've been surprised by the technical niaivity in some threads, considering that these guys are at the "bigger end". I'd sorta hoped I'd prompt some knowledgable input to the HDV discussions.
Serena
Spot|DSE wrote on 11/15/2005, 3:43 PM
Truth be known, one of the guys there that has a strong aversion to HDV is the same guy that a year ago, wrote a lengthy "review" of the Sony Z1 that he saw projected on an XGA projector, he saw the projector on a wheeled cart in the middle of a very bouncy floor, and after a lot of needling, finally admitted he was half in the bag when he saw the demo. However, even though he was not sober, he was "sure he'd seen lots of jitter, jumping frames, and artifacting" in Sony's demo tape, and that HDV was terrible. You can't hold an discussion with someone like that, why even try?
There are some very high end guys in there, and what's funny is, many of them are using HDV every day on large shoots, but in at least one case, he's not talking in that forum at all. Makes me wonder why.
Serena wrote on 11/15/2005, 4:46 PM
Not someone called "Walter"? His philosophy that you're not capable unless you're using top-end gear is so far off the mark that it falls into a category I call "religious argument".