The corporate production process

DJPadre wrote on 1/22/2008, 6:43 PM

I work my stuff around a way whereby my proposal BECOMES the contract.
This way what was pitched is precisely what they get and they cannot ask for anything outside this boundary unless theyre willing ot pay for it.

Too many times have i come across corp clients who do not know what it is they want, let alone care about the process we have to go through to get the results theyre wanting.

Thehardest part is deciphering the vision of the potential clietn and drawing upon their VISION and IDEAS to wrk out what it is YOU can do to serrvice them
WHy are you better then the guy next door and why are you better suited for the job in earnest.
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A few questions I have so far as I'm now in the midst of writing this:

1. Contract vs. Proposal. Should they be one in the same? If not, do you send them together or send the contract after the proposal is accepted? How does a client accept your proposal? Sign it?

((Proposal is persoanlly pitchedby me with samples and the liek provided on teh various formats which i am selling. As an exalpe, if we pitch podcast, i take an ipod and show them podcasts... DVD, i bring in a DVD, Powerpoint embedded video, i bring in a powerpoint presentation with embedded video.
Most corp clients are male, and makes are very visual. They need to touch and feel and experience a product to understand its value. I knwo my comment sounded sexist, but lets face it, the white collar world is disctated by males... ))

2. Do you spell out your actual hourly rates (I definitely want to charge on an hourly basis) or just give per project estimates?

((Never.. i draw out a base package and integrate costs into teh one large lump sum. How many hours it taks me to deliver a produt is irrelevant and has the potential to lose a sale.
I can film, edit and deliver a corp job in the same day in formats ready to go online almost immediately.
if i was to charge per hour, I would be selling myself short nex tto the other bloke who takes 2 days and charges less.
In addition, by charging in the hour and finishing an urgent task, has the potential to devalue the work, simply because the SDE occured on location. The client can SEE what yoru doing and this in tiself can be a potential disaster with backseat Editors and thegood ol " he charged HOW MUCH?? Well we can do it ourseles next time if it only took him afew hours to pull this off... " mentality...
Despite teh fact its NOT their money, they think this way..

AFTER the fact however is when i begin to charge per hour, and i dotn get out of bed for less than $1100 bux, so that shoudl gie u an indication of costs... (depends on teh job though.. ) ))

3. What is your general project process? For me, I'm thinking:

1. prospect (network, advertise, i.e., find the potential client)

((I have the cleitns find me, I do not actively seek them. They seek me through referals and styles of work i have done in the past. Its why i dont advertise it. ALthough potentially i can make alot mroe with Corp, the crap that comes with corp annoys me...
Especialy from those that want teh works, but do not want to pay for it.. were not at the Bali markets where we haggle prices....but some people jstu dont get it.. ))

2. qualify (find out if the client and I can help each other)

((Meh... this is a waste of time IMO... If the client wants a product, theyll seek someone to provide it.. You might be the best out there and doorknock every office n your town, but if thy have no need for you, then forget it, yoru wsting time..

IF you KNOW you can deliver, there is no need to qualify anything aside from finances..

From there, the trick is to expand the existig mindset of those who DIDNT consider video... once u tap THAT market, then uve got it made... ))

3. Send proposal (and contract? or)

((No..throw the idea n their minds then offer to send proposal at a later time. After instilling the thought, follow it throgh with an email outlinign tthe disussion. After a week or so, reapproach them with a verbal offer of service, DO NOT try to sell them, jsut try to get them to agree... once they agree, work out th price later... Eventually once your folio grows, you can start off with price, but on teh outset, if you can enhance their ideas with your service, do it, and let teh money come later.. coz it will... ))

4. Send contract

((Do this on the first day of shooting. Send nothing unlsess its a coy of said contract. The mroe time u give them to think about it, the more likely you have of dealing with isues and questions which could hinder your profit or perforamce. DO However send out an information pack which details what you need from them (ie no striped shirts, no harsh colour tones, No red lipstick for females, recoemdn makeup (supply your own pore pack skin refreshers), air conditionaing off in room XYZ, etc Also adivse that a contract and release will need to be singed upon your arrival before recording begins. ))

5. Contract signed, down payment is received

((Yup.. with corp though u can prolly forget a downpayment.. they usually have to go throgh approval and accounting process before they even get to you. Expect most if not all your corp clients to pay you after the fact.. ))

6. Production begins

((well youd like to hope so!!))

7. First cut (draft) shown to client

(No... first you debrief them of the event with YOUR ideas of how to improve the product. based oin the material you have.
this can potentially lead to additional products and upgrades which means more $$ in your pocket.
So debrief them, and make your recomendation.
THEN work on teh draft..
Once th draft is complete, offer it for preliminary. Timecode it and allow the clietn 48hours to review and take notes and base any changes in teh timecode within the file.
This is easier than running around town like an idiot ))

8. Revisions (revise as requested and negotiate price)
((No.. dont request price.... you shoudl have adivsed final price when you offered your debrief. They hire you for your professional experience and expertise. If they want to ignore that, cool. If they want to utilise it, you charge them for it.
BUT always write the invoice BEFORE you even start cutting. this way thy know how much they need to fork out.
Any changes from THAT point are charged in addition to the original debriefed price'
So in essence, once you have your footag u knwo what yoru working with.. u might have a manager who cant hold a sentence together or u might get a perfect public speaker. This will determin how much work is required.
Once u know how much wirk is needed on teh outset, send them the bill.
After preapproval, if they want changs which go against the debrief (recomendation) from you and the initial job brief from them, charge them again as the trms of teh agreement have changed.
if its a technical issue of yoru doing or responsibility, dont charge. If its purely aesthetic, then charge them

9. Approval of Final Cut

((yup and this is where the collated invoice is provided.. showing all initial costs, addon costs etc ))

10. Full payment (balance) received/Final cut master delivered.

((You wish... most corps will not pay unless they have something in their hand.. Im yet to come across a comapny that is willing to pay first then take reciept of goods later. Weddings are different but consider the account dept issues and timing elements.
Also you dont want account delays to hinder the delivery of the product, as this could cause otehr issues for future work.
If they have an orienation video, and you refuse to give them the disc because yo uhavent been paid, it makes them look bad. If however you were "kind enough" to wait for teir accoutnsteam to work around the issue, then more than likely theyll hire you again..
Dont be surprise and dont be afraid to threaten legal action against corps who are lax in theeyre payments..
For some, tehyre given budget over a quarter or half year. Others have monthly budgets and might be trying to hold off on teh spend until the cyucle comes up.
Thats not your problem, btu THEY make it yoru prob when u have to wait..
With this i give my cleitns 21days to pay any given account upon reciept of goods.
After the 4th week, they are chargesd 25% ON TOP of the invoice for admin late fees. Each month theyre late, means an additional 25% in my pocket for their non action.
Theyve been given 3 weeks to pay up and its not liek they didnt know. I charge these fees moreso to prompt them to pay up as opposed to making profit, but i have to admit, last year i made a hefty sum from one particular company simply becuase they were too busy playing office politics... ))

Hope this helps..
good luck..

masmedia wrote on 1/22/2008, 8:04 PM

Thanks, DJPadre! I appreciate all the time you took going through my questions. You made several excellent points, one of which being the corp. payment process. As you probably suspected, I've been getting paid in advance for weddings, but want to protect myself against non-payments, and your 25% late charges may be the work around of that dilemma.

I read though your notes, and will do so again in more detail later. Thank you again for your help.

jrazz wrote on 1/22/2008, 8:58 PM

I was doing a job for a local cardiologist and he failed numerous times to pay on time and when he finally did, he wound up paying over 2 times what the original payment was just because he did not get around to calling me about the bill (actually his office manager was new and kept getting my invoices on a monthly basis and once it finally got to double the price is when the guy finally called me about what the invoice was for. After he understood, he still was one invoice late and that more than doubled the payment owed.)

Now, that is not the norm. Usually you don't get paid the late fee and you are lucky to get your payment on time. They know that 90% of the time you will not take them to court over a late fee and it will cost you more to pursue it than just to accept a late payment.

j razz

DJPadre wrote on 1/22/2008, 10:12 PM

Sorry about the atrocious typos... I was typing fast and was deliriously tired... I shoud lalso poitn ouit that this is the way I do it, im sure others would have their own methods

masmedia wrote on 1/23/2008, 5:43 AM

no problem with the typing. you gave me tons to think about in your post.
As the other post about not getting paid in a long time... simply getting paid is my main concern. I think if I get a substantial deposit right away, I should be OK.

masmedia wrote on 1/23/2008, 2:37 PM

Hi again DJ Padre,

I now went through your advice more thoroughly, and have a couple of questions.

For “selling”, you mentioned it was a waste of time knocking on doors, etc. and the client would come to you. Sounds perfect, where do I have to live to have that happen?!

You also then said to expand the mindset of those who didn’t consider video. Who are the “those” you speak of? Do you mean among the clients who come to you? If so, are they not coming to you for video already? Help me understand what you mean by this, if you don’t mind.

I fully understand the situation with corporation’s billing cycles. With your method, is what you have (i.e., “collateral”) before production simply your signed contract? This may well be enough, but for my wedding work, I’ve always required a down payment to hold the date, and full payment 2 weeks before the wedding. As you mentioned, corp is not weddings!

You said to send the contract on the first day of shooting. Are you saying bring it along, have them sign it, or you leave? Wouldn’t you want to have the signed contact before loading up your gear and driving to the site? I’m not sure where you are, but a few phrases/words hint at England or Australia. In the USA, the snail mail IS the snail mail, so it would be hard to time sending it via the P.O. to coincide with the shoot day, if you meant that.

You said you would quote/contract one large lump sum for a project, then debrief after the shoot, and invoice before cutting. Not sure I understand this process. Say you quote a client $1100 for a job (enough to get out of bed!) and after shooting, you realize it will be more like $1500 in time. How do you break it to them? If I’m understanding this correctly (and I’m probably not), wouldn’t you be adding $400 to an $1100 agreement before you’ve actually done any editing? Sounds cool enough to me, but I would think many clients would have a problem with this. In your debrief, are you radically changing the script? My feeling here is a client may get upset when they find out suddenly the costs have increased by quite a bit after they signed a contact for an agreement price, and didn’t request any changes.

One last thing, is your 25% penalty 4 weeks after delivery, or 4 weeks from the 21st day when the bill was due?

I certainly don’t have the desire, nor the time, doing this part time in addition to my full time producer job, to have to fool around with legal action. One of the main purposes here in seeking this advice, is to avoid such scenarios as much as possible!

Very, very interesting info you gave me, and I so appreciate all the time you took to help me out. I didn’t even think about the general corp billing cycle, but am very glad you brought that up. Again, just trying to protect myself as I venture into (hopefully) more corp work.

Thanks again, and have a great night!

mas

rmack350 wrote on 1/23/2008, 6:08 PM

Your question is pretty broad but it seems like you need to know about marketing, proposals, contracts, and payment.

You probably haven't gotten a lot of answers here because it'd take a lot of time to write an answer. And, oh look at the clock! I'm out of time too!

I'll try to pick this up later tonight.

Rob

DJPadre wrote on 1/23/2008, 8:01 PM

Ill be brief

"For “selling”, you mentioned it was a waste of time knocking on
doors, etc. and the client would come to you. Sounds perfect, where do I have to live to have that happen?! "
No not a waste of time knocking on doors, but a waste of time trying to "sell" what video can do... they KNOW what video can do, the point is to tmake it known thtat you DO offer video services, so when theymight want to hire someone... anyone, they come to you.
Theres no point making a sales pitch n a service if it is not needed for THAT moment...
Thats what i meant..
so make it known.. ie, doorknock and offer flyers to whoever you speak to, leave a sample disc etc, but dont try the hard sell until they contact you with their ideas first.. Then work on teh hard sel once you (and moreso THEY) know what theyre looking for.. ))

"You also then said to expand the mindset of those who didn’t consider video. Who are the “those” you speak of? Do you mean among the clients who come to you?"
Clients wont come to you if they dont know you exist..
by expanding the mindset what yoru doing is instilling the idea of video into any given head.. once that idea is there, then you can work from that.. see above response for clarity...
Basically what your trying to do is expose the element of video to those whove never thought of it.
Consider comapnies that do alot of presentations and seminars and look at the programs and methods they use. Use YOUR OWN elements to enhance their existing workload and workflow. IE powerpoint driven presenations could be enhanced with embeded video etc ))

" If so, are they not coming to you for video already? Help me understand what you mean by this, if you don’t mind."

((Explained above.. i wasnt too clear earleir coz i was buggered))

"I fully understand the situation with corporation’s billing cycles. With your method, is what you have (i.e., “collateral”) before production simply your signed contract? This may well be enough, but for my wedding work, I’ve always required a down payment to hold the date, and full payment 2 weeks before the wedding. As you mentioned, corp is not weddings!"

Thats right corp is nowhere near what a wedding is. SO the rules of engagement are different. Im alot stricter on wedding clietns coz they have teh tendency to blow their cash on their honeymoons etc. so everythign is upfront.
Wth corporate, i give them the idea that theyre in control becuase this is a major element of your success with them. If they feel they have no contorl in regard to how the account is managed, either through content or through account management, then they wont come back .If heyre intimidated by rules and contracts, they will not come back. IF however they feel taht theyre in contorl through the entire process, thatn u cna expct repeat business over and over again))

You said to send the contract on the first day of shooting.
((NO i said to bring the actual contract n the day of shooting))

Are you saying bring it along, have them sign it, or you leave?

((Thats pretty much it))

Wouldn’t you want to have the signed contact before loading up your gear and driving to the site?

((No because it then gives them time to make amendments and dick around with it trying to change things for their benefit. Dotn forget theyre in business liek you to make a profit..
This way though, they can read it, discuss any changes, and make request to which you respnd by saying "we'll work that out after the shoot. Because the contract is based on the initial brief and we are hereTODAY with the initial briefing in mind.
We cannot make any more changes as this is what was agreed. "
Any changes/additins to THIS agreement are then billed later.
It really depends on the client and the contract though.

Ive had some jobs where theyve wanted a simple talking head presentation, then when i got there, they wanted a full complete businsss profile to be filmed and edited and mixed with the talking head segment. Thats jsut one example of how it can stuff u up.

But until its signed, i dont hit record. This method is particualrly handy for difficult clients who tyre kick and dont know what they want. ))

" I’m not sure where you are, but a few phrases/words hint at England or Australia. In the USA, the snail mail IS the snail mail, so it would be hard to time sending it via the P.O. to coincide with the shoot day, if you meant that."

Im in Oz

"You said you would quote/contract one large lump sum for a project, then debrief after the shoot, and invoice before cutting. Not sure I understand this process. Say you quote a client $1100 for a job (enough to get out of bed!) and after shooting, you realize it will be more like $1500 in time. How do you break it to them? If I’m understanding this correctly (and I’m probably not), wouldn’t you be adding $400 to an $1100 agreement before you’ve actually done any editing? Sounds cool enough to me, but I would think many clients would have a problem with this. In your debrief, are you radically changing the script? My feeling here is a client may get upset when they find out suddenly the costs have increased by quite a bit after they signed a contact for an agreement price, and didn’t request any changes. "

I offer a quick summary of cost based on the initial task.
If the client is happy to lock that price without changes to said summary, then they get that invcoice before i hit record.
If however theyre umming and arghing or they want this kind of edit for the younger market, than a slower edit for the retirees, then that is invoiced accordingly.
The way it works is that you give them a solid price, but its not gospel so leave your options open.
Once you finish shooting (with that initial price to cover the job) you debrief the clietn and offer more to the edit based on yoru results and findings. This can potentially increase your earnings, basically your offering value added elements to the existing agreement.. for a price..
Whether they go for it or not, it doesnt matter, at least youve TOLD the cient what you have to work with so far.
See where im heading at?
Start simple, then add to it later. ))

One last thing, is your 25% penalty 4 weeks after delivery, or 4 weeks from the 21st day when the bill was due?

((i wouldnt expect anyone to follow my business model.
I give the client 3 weeks to pay up + 5 days for clearance.
This covers cheque clearing days. In turn, its in essence 4 weeks (inc cheque clearances)
If nothing is recieved or cleared within those 4 weeks (from the day of delivery) then they get another invoice with a hefty little addition... ))

I certainly don’t have the desire, nor the time, doing this part time in addition to my full time producer job, to have to fool around with legal action. One of the main purposes here in seeking this advice, is to avoid such scenarios as much as possible!

((IN any bsiness you should have a legally binding contract. Its one thing to have a contract, its another thing to ENFORCE said contract. If its not enforcable, thn there is no point.))

Very, very interesting info you gave me, and I so appreciate all the time you took to help me out. I didn’t even think about the general corp billing cycle, but am very glad you brought that up. Again, just trying to protect myself as I venture into (hopefully) more corp work.

((Its nto easy, but ots prolly some of the most fulfilling work you could do))

Thanks again, and have a great night!

((U too))

rmack350 wrote on 1/24/2008, 9:48 AM

...marketing, proposals, contracts, and payment.

I could be reading things wrong but it seems like you're combining things that you might be better off viewing separately.

Proposals are not really part of your marketing effort. You generally do them after someone has asked for them. Perhaps a company has publicly published an RFP (Request for Proposal) or otherwise publicly requested bids for work, but usually these things are not public. In our experience, we are directly asked to bid on specific projects.

Of course your marketing efforts are what will get you on somebody's list of companies to ask for bids. Marketing can take many forms, and often it boils down to something more like networking. For example we often get work with new companies because our contacts from previous companies moved on to new jobs. That's fine when you've been in business for 20 years but not helpful when starting out. When starting out you need to make sure your name is heard, that you have a positive image, and you need to start networking. One thing I've been impressed by is a local company that was doing matching grants during the local NPR fund drives. This got their name on the radio during commute hours and cast them in a good light. At the very least, people with jobs could say they'd heard of the company. That's a start.

As a wedding videographer you actually do have a network. The problem with it is that it's a base of people who see you as a wedding video producer. This is part and parcel of a problem you'll always have which is that people will categorize you. Your first corporate clients may see you as the low budget guy and never call you for better work.

Back to proposals and bids. You could think of a bid as relating to a well defined job like shooting 3 interviews and finishing them for web delivery by x date. It's well defined. On the other hand, maybe a company wants a proposal for a fork lift safety video, in which case you need to put some flesh on their idea. Not too much flesh but enough to set some expectations.

Setting expectations is the key here. While you really don't want to drown them in conditions and rules (even though they may do it to you), you do want to be very clear about what you'll do for the money they pay you. You can either submit a proposal based on the content they want, and estimate a price, or they may tell you their budget and you tell them what you can do for the money.

Eventually, your bid or proposal lays out the deliverable product, the delivery date, milestones in the process (like review dates), expectations of the client (they might need to supply the talent and the locations, they need to hit the review milestones in order to meet the delivery date)

This stuff will eventually go into a contract which needs to be approved by both parties before production starts (not on the day you show up, unless it's just that sort of client). Chances are that if the corporation is big then they'll make you jump through huge hoops to become a qualified vendor. Ask about the process early on or you may suddenly find yourself in a process that's bigger than the actual job.

Try to account for changes. The client should know what they're buying and what constitutes a change, and that the change will cost more.

Keep your language simple. For example, a spa company contracted with a producer for a promotional video. They already had other videos they liked so they stipulated in the contract that the new video should match the "quality and caliber" of the old videos. Well, they got a very nice video but it didn't look like the others so they got lawyers and tried to get a reshoot at the producer's expense. In the end the arbitrator decided that the language was too vague. What the client really wanted was a video that would look like the other videos, but they didn't say that.

So keep your language simple and straightforward.

Late fees...This might be something you can pull on a small business owner but you really need to be careful about it because if you have to play that card you may lose the client. (and maybe by that point you want to lose that client!)

Most larger corporations will have pulled a PO for your work. They tend to consider the cost a done deal, and of course they really wanted the cost to be a known quantity from the start. Usually here in the States video jobs are done on a Net 30 plan but the corporation may very well have a Net 120 policy. Find out about this ahead of time, give them a bid for Net 120 payment, and offer a discount if they pay you Net 30. It's a little better than tacking on late fees.

If we really do decend into a recession you'll find more companies going to Net 120, and don't be surprised if they try to do it without telling you, they sometimes just treat these policy changes as decrees from god and they act like there's no alternative. Too bad. You probably have your own vendors to pay so you have to get them to make an exception.

Rob Mack

masmedia wrote on 1/25/2008, 6:49 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the typing you did to help a guy out! I appreciate the tips, and you both gave me good insights.

DJPadre, that all makes sense to me, the only thing I wouldn't do is bring the contract on shoot day, but get that to them well before that day because having my company as a part time side venture (adventure) for now, to take time off work, get the gear together (lighting would be rented) and then have them not sign on site would screw me up pretty royally. But, that's just me. If that works for you, that's wonderful.

Oz, eh? Well, Matie, I must tell you my wife is from there! Where in Oz are you? She's from Brisbane. I've been there, and that whole area is really nice.

Thanks again for all the time you all took for advice!

Mark/mas