Thinking in circles

boomhower wrote on 12/28/2004, 7:36 PM
I almost hate to ask this but I've read through the archives via search and really haven't found a solid answer to my situation.

I was all set to pick up a GL2 based on a rec from a friend who uses XL1s etc with his production company. I've done some consulting on projects with him and am looking to work on some projects of my own soon so I'm getting set up. (short documentaries, training films and a commercial here and there for local cable station)

Long story short, I was going to get the GL2 but ran into a pricing situation (posted here a few days ago) and while waiting for that to resolve I started looking again (mostly at the pd170). I know these are in different zip codes but they are the two I keep coming back to.

I really like the 170 but I can't decide if what I gain by going to that system is worth the price diff. I figure after tricking out the GL2 by adding the XLR and wide angle, I'll be roughly within $550 of the pd 170 while the 170 has this out of the box. I like the XLR, low light and chip difference on the 170. The only thing I can see you really lose by going to the GL2 (besides a few more dead presidents) is the movie mode (30fps) deal on the GL2. I would like the "film look" but I'm more concerned with overall performance. I can tweak things in post to a degree.

Respect the opinions of the forum. Hope this doesn't send HDV into a posting frenzy (although he is on my ignore list).

Thanks in advance for the inputs.....

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/28/2004, 8:28 PM
All I can say is, after playing with the 170 a bit, I'd pop for the extra there. The DOF on the 170 is far, far better than the GL, and that's coming from a guy that's got 3 GL's, two GL2's and one GL1. You'd likely never use the frame mode on the GL, it's pretty bad, and the 170 ain't a lot better. One cam loses resolution, the other loses frames. Take your pick. The 170 is a LOT more flexible.
boomhower wrote on 12/28/2004, 9:42 PM
Thanks Spot....appreciate your perspective. As you mentioned, I too wondered just how much I would use the frame mode on the GL2. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't too far off base with my thinking on this. Looking for the biggest bang for the buck.

My wife says I analyze things way too much. I told her I'd have to think about that and get back with her.
farss wrote on 12/28/2004, 10:04 PM
I back up what SPOT has said. We've got 4 pretty ancient 150s and they've given years of admiral service. Having built in XLRs is a HUGE plus. I know I've said this many times, avoid bolt on XLR adaptors, the very last thing you want are more plugs, sockets and bits of wire in your audio chain. They do fail. In many situations losing audio is a bigger problem than loosing vision.
If you want something a bit easier on the budget then the Panasonic DVC30 might be worth a look, not as good as the 170 but still a well built camera with removed XLR pod. However that external XLR adaptor does use a solid connector. I've no first hand experience with that camera though, haven't seen it get any bad press though.
Bob.
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/28/2004, 10:30 PM
Your comments are sound, Bob, except for one thing; Apparently there is a conspiracy on the part of Panasonic, against Sony, even though Sony builds parts for Panny and vice-versa. :-)
Seriously, it's kinda odd that folks will buy a GL2 and then go spend 300 more to buy an XLR pod with phantom and level control when for 200.00 more (over the cost of the pod) they can get a much better cam.
Grazie wrote on 12/28/2004, 10:53 PM
{ flexes knuckles and stretches biceps )

BUT, but but it does have the 20x optical zoom! Sony wasn't, ( I think neither was the XL1/s at the time either. Very good for framing on a tripod, and I knew I could get in real close with the 20x AND keepa great picture - well great for a 1/4 CCD array any way.

I guess, Spot, I did a calculation back in Nov '02, and the basic PLUS the accessories [ Wide angle & Senni K6+MK66 & Canon's MA300 audio adaptor ] came within my budget - and no, I wasn't frame mode orientated, didn't really know what that meant : correction, I REALLY didn't know what that meant.

Honestly? I think I bought it on the "feel" in my hands AND the budget bit for the acessories. At that time - I believe - an integrated XLR wasn't available for the price break.

Grazie
pb wrote on 12/28/2004, 11:04 PM
Hey, I've used both and I assure you Spot is right. Canon XL1s/GL1&2 have mushy pictures compared to Sony and also tend to add a bit of a green tinge to your footage, due to the process they employ to boost resolution (they use the green channel.

Frame Mode is worthless unless you are using the bugger in a telecine chain.

I apologize to Grazie in advance regarding the 20X zoom - there is a reason a good Canon Broadcast 15X lens with 2X extender costs as much as four and a half GL2s and a rum of the mill Fjui or Canon "Industrial" 18X is about the same price as two GL2s - optics, dear boy.

THink Sony, mate.

Peter


Trust me, the Sony is the better buy (though why you don't go for the HDV cam I don't comprehend). I personally would not take another Canon camcorder as a gift. They might be okay for little jobs but there is no way you are going to be able to compete with HDV/ DSR 570 / DXC-D50/DSR1 et al. with the entry level GL2.
Grazie wrote on 12/28/2004, 11:27 PM
No apology needed I assure you dear boy. I was green, the drink got to my head .. and the 20x was just so alluring! As I said, it WAS what I could afford at the time. And just to add to it, I just bought another XM2 as backup and lock it off as 2nd camera.

When I finally do reach that budget plateau, my thoughts would be to have Sony kit - when this will be? Heaven only knows! In the meantime I do make videos for organisations and as long as I abide by my teaching and 3 year experience I can get quite high production values that allow me to keep my head held high.

No offence taken . .. it's always, well mostly, about THE money anyway . . it isn't about the actual "best" product.

Grazie
pb wrote on 12/29/2004, 12:16 AM
Grazie, with me it is ALL about the money, so we are obviously in the same head space. I am not an idealist and strive for adequacy and lots of it, rather than spend a couple of extra days in the edit bay tweaking and fiddling to make the job "perfect." Face it, what is the life of a TV commercial advertising a sale? A week or two at best.

I've done a couple of jobs where the only way I could get shots inside some vessels was with a DCR 9 handicam (though in 16:9 mode). Client didn't carp or whinge a bit about DCR9 being intercut with DSR 570 footage.

Peter
Grazie wrote on 12/29/2004, 12:25 AM
Understood. G
boomhower wrote on 12/29/2004, 8:58 AM
Thanks everyone.....Looks like I'm heading for the 170. Gotta hurry though the $300 rebate goes out this week.

pb - I'm not going HD as I don't really have a need for it at present and I'd rather wait to see what happens on down the line. By the time I actually have a need, the cameras should be more common and all the players will have put their best forward. I don't generally like buying the first of anything....like to let others "beta test"

You know you have a good thread going when Grazie cracks his knuckles and flexes his biceps...........

KB