Tips for better VHS/SVHS distribution copies

Caruso wrote on 1/13/2002, 4:40 AM
Hoping someone can offer some suggestions. I've finished editing a music concert copies of which I'd like to distribute on VHS tape. I'm guessing that most of the folks I give tapes to will watch on standard VHS machines.

My system includes two Sony dubbinb VCR's, one VHS, one SVHS. I've been dubbing to the SVHS machine (set in its 'editing' mode, whatever that does to improve quality), and, playback of the resultant copies looks just fine from that machine. . . not as sharp as playback from my DV camcorder, but certainly acceptable.

When I take the SVHS machine to my family room TV setup and play it on a regular vhs machine, the colors bleed, they seem way too 'hot', and, generally, the picture looks awful.

I'm dubbing two new copies, this time, one each to both Sony machines (VHS/SVHS), and I want to compare how the VHS copy looks compared to the SVHS copy when both are played on my VHS machine in my family room.

The thought of distributing these copies knowing what most people will see on their regular vhs machines disappoints me.

Is there some setting in Vegas that will optimize what my potential viewers will see?

BTW, the family room VCR is an old Canon (6 years or so), but, I keep it clean, and it plays rented movies just fine.

Also, because this program is well beyond an hour long, I'm using the 'no device control' option in Vegas and 'recording to device' through my digi8 camcorder's firewire then out through the S-video/RCA audio out jacks to the VCR.

I've also copied sections directly onto my DIGI8 camcorder, then tried dubbing to the VCR. The result is the same. SVHS copies, when played on the SVHS machine, look fine. Played on the VHS machine, the results are yucky.

I'm guessing someone here can give me a pointer or two, and for that, I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks.

Caruso

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 1/13/2002, 11:49 AM
The problem is in the difference between how VHS and SVHS is recorded
on the tape. SVHS is not compatible with VHS. It is recorded at about
twice the signal strength. When an SVHS tape is played back on a standard
VHS VCR, the signal will be too strong and the colors will bleed and wash
out. Actually, if you were to try to play it back on a newer VHS machine it
might not even play at all.

If you want to distribute to VHS users, record on the VHS VCR, or set your
SVHS machine to VHS mode.
JayC wrote on 1/13/2002, 11:49 AM
Tapes donein the S-VHS mode do not play on a standard VHS player... S-VHS has to be played only on an S-VHS machine... That's why you get funny color...
If you want to make copyies to give out, you should make them on SVH only as most people do not have S-VHS machines to play them on...
The other way would be to master to digital and then make VHS copyies from the digital tape or master to S-VHS and then make copyies from that to VHS...
Hope this helps...73.....
HPV wrote on 1/13/2002, 12:54 PM
When I take the SVHS machine to my family room TV setup and play it on a regular vhs machine, the colors bleed, they seem way too 'hot', and, generally, the picture looks awful.
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I assume you are recording reg. VHS tapes in the S deck? (SVHS recorded tapes in a reg. VHS machine without the Quasi SVHS feature have more problems than just color bleed)
That said, you'll need to use the HSL filter at the Video Output Filter stage. This is the third and final stage a filter can be used in Vegas. (Video Preview window activated) Drop the saturation until you get good results. Do some test with region renders to find what will work. Full project rendering is the downside, good vhs copies is the up side. I use a outboard TBC to do this in real time between Dig. 8 or SVHS masters and VHS dubs.
Something else to consider is most SVHS decks are tweeked to perfom best with SVHS stock recorded in SVHS
mode at the expense of VHS recording quality. You might see a better dub with the reg. VHS machine. I've been making hundreds of dubs with four low cost VHS HIFI decks I picked up for $65.00 each. They produce as good or better dubs than anything I've ever used and have held up great.
Two are Symphonics and two are Emersons. Both brands are the same beast. Wall Mart has the Emersons at $59.99 and BestBuy has the Symphonics (on close out)at $64.99. Zap me an email if you want the model numbers. You can tell which ones they are from the price and that they don't have an LCD display, just five LED lights on the front.

Craig H.
Caruso wrote on 1/13/2002, 3:48 PM
I did complete dubs using both my vhs and svhs vcrs. Frankly, both look about the same on my family room vhs setup - I'm hard pressed to tell the difference. What both versions have in common is that they are lousy compared to the quality I get from my Digi8 DV dubs (a result to be expected, I guess).

I'm familiar with that HSL filter, as I've used it to good effect to even out the appearance difference from my camcorders (one Digi8, one Hi8, one regular 8mm).

I'll have to try your suggestion, HPV. A bit of trial and error should probably do it. Then, I'll have to put a notice on my copies that they are best viewed in VHS rather than SVHS mode.

And, yes, I've tried dubbing to the special SVHS formulated tapes. The results are very good when played back on an SVHS machine, but, those tapes won't play at all on my VHS gear.

Thanks for all the replies. This board is one of SF's more valuable assets if you ask me.

Caruso
HPV wrote on 1/13/2002, 5:20 PM
>> Then, I'll have to put a notice on my copies that they are best viewed in VHS rather than SVHS mode.
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Huh? Either the dubs are vhs or svhs. Only a person with a vhs deck that does "quasi svhs playback" could playback a svhs tape in a vhs deck. Not many people have these, or even svhs decks. Just make vhs dubs and call it done.

>>Thanks for all the replies. This board is one of SF's more valuable assets if you ask me.
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Glad to help, it's a Win/Win situation in my book. SF makes awesome code, we the users help each other out. Plus SF's great staff that always stay intouch with this forum.
BTW, Sony now makes a SP 90min. D8 tape. If your project is under 1-1/2 hours, you can master to this tape and make vhs dubs from it. A little better results than mastering to svhs. Downside is wear and tear on your D8 camera. Upside info is my D8 camera has rolled over 100 tapes through it with perfect performance. Manual cleaning every 20 hours helps, I'm sure. I use Sony reg. 8mm tape stock only. And the new SP90 D8 Sony stock when needed.

Craig (Just call me HPV, why do I bother with this sig. ?) H. 8-)
Caruso wrote on 1/14/2002, 3:53 AM
Thanks, HVP. I'll look into the Sony 90-minute tape. The project is less than 1 1/2 hrs. I'd love to get a D8 print of it so that I will feel comfortable in finally deleting this project (and all its associated files) from my computer.

Even though my system has ample storage space, I've rendered, then tweaked and rendered the render using a new instance of the veg file several times to the point where I hardly know which files are part of my project anymore.

Actually, though, I did get one final, complete rendering last evening, and I consider that instance to be a final take (but haven't viewed it from start to finish yet to check for glitches, and won't feel comfortable in deleting everything else until I do).

At any rate, like you, I am most pleased with VV30 (although render to device from the timeline is still not working right for me . . . I'm thinking that, too, might be a disk management problem . . . ).

Until VV30 arrived, I always depended upon Pinnacle's S7 to move my projects to tape, but, right now, S7 is not even loaded on my machine, so high is my confidence in VV30's reliability in printing to tape (albeit from vidcap30 screen only) without problems.

Thanks again for your reply, and thanks SF for a great software package.

Caruso

SonyEPM wrote on 1/14/2002, 8:50 AM
It could be the video levels of your projects are simply too hot for your video deck.

You can clamp the video output to broadcast specs if you add the "Broadcast Colors" filter (clamp preset) to the video output (drop it on the video preview window). This does force recompression of every frame, but it will bring the video levels down to legal NTSC specs (and your deck SHOULD be able to handle those).