Title (main) menu

Steve Mann wrote on 3/13/2007, 1:14 PM

As I understand DVDA, each submenu is a titleset, so the title menu button is working correctly. You are looking for the root menu or DVD menu button on your remote, but some DVD players don't have both buttons. Worse, it's not consistent from player to player how the menu buttons respond.

raf wrote on 3/13/2007, 1:37 PM

I don't understand: I create a menu (1) with two submenus (2 and 3).... I play the dvd with Powed DVD on my pc or on 2 different stand alone dvd players and: from the main menu I navigate to the submenu-2; from here I push the "Title Menu" button and I get on the screen the submenu-3 in state of the parent menu (main menu)!!
Which connection there is between the submenu-2 and the submenu-3?????? I don't think this is a normal way to work!

bStro wrote on 3/14/2007, 11:59 AM

I think the most important part of Steve's post is the last sentence: "Worse, it's not consistent from player to player how the menu buttons respond."

There is no "normal way to work" when it comes to some of the buttons on a DVD player remote -- in particular, Title and Menu. Those buttons send whatever signal that particular manufacturer programmed it to, and for some reason or other, the DVD player manufactuers have not agreed upon a specific code. Since these are the codes that the developers of DVD authoring applications must incorporated into their software, where does that leave them? They have to pick one, and whether or not the one the pick works with any particular DVD player is the luck of the draw.

For what it's worth, I set up a project the way you describe and tested it in one PC based player (DVDMAX) and two set top players (one Panasonic, one Phillips).

DVDMAX doesn't have a Title button, but it has a Menu -> Title menu option. This led me back to Menu 1.

My Panasonic doesn't have a Title button, but it has a Top Menu button. This led me back to Menu 1.

My Phillips has a Title button. This led me back to Menu 1.

So, at least in my case, all of my players did exactly what you expect. *shrug* Take from this what you like.

Rob

raf wrote on 3/14/2007, 3:03 PM

You are telling me that with 3 menus, if you go to the number 2 and click the Top-Menu (or Title) button you go back to the menu nr.1???
I really can't understand why I get a different result....I tried the same thing building 1 menu wiht 3 pages: the same result!! In 2 player and in Power DVD (Cybelink application for PC) if I go to the page 2 and click the TITLE button I go to the page 3!!!!!? I mean, the thing is very basic: 1 menu and 2 submenus... Have to think that the possibility to go back from my 2 submenus to the main menu, without a specific link button, is not a standard feature????

You know what? The strange thing is that 4 other authoring applications do the right (almost in my opinion) thing... I tried with DVD Workshop, TMPGenc DVD, Encore DVD, DVD Moviefactory.

:-(

raf wrote on 3/14/2007, 4:23 PM

Right now tried also with WinDVD (PC based player, Intervideo) which has the Title button, as almost all the DVD player: same bad result!!!
Tried also to make the same DVD with MyDVD (Authoring software) and everything is fine!!!

Very strange thing... Looks like a bug: only in DVDA I have this problem.

Raf

johnmeyer wrote on 3/14/2007, 9:12 PM

Make sure the listing of the menus in the left-hand pane is in the order you want them to appear. If not, drag and drop them so they appear in the proper order. Also, check the Order DVD Titles option in the File menu. This may not help in this instance, but if your menus are tied in any way to media assets, the order that there are listed in this new (to 4.0) menu will affect many things concerning DVD navigation.

Finally, you can always get the navigation you want by using scripts. If you can post the DAR file on an ftp site, I'll take a look and see if I can suggest anything else. If not, I'll show you how to make it work by using a simple (4-5 line) script. Or, you can email me. I'll post the solution back here, if we are successful.

bStro wrote on 3/14/2007, 9:43 PM

You are telling me that with 3 menus, if you go to the number 2 and click the Top-Menu (or Title) button you go back to the menu nr.1???

Yes, that is what I'm telling you.

I really can't understand why I get a different result....

I thought both Steve and I explained it pretty well. Re-read our posts carefully, and maybe it will sink in.

Rob

raf wrote on 3/15/2007, 3:12 AM

Thank you john, I will check the settings, but I don't think it will help: as I wrote I tried to make a new simple project with just 3 menus with only few buttons to link the first menu to the others and the second and third menu to the first, without any media file. The result is the same!!! When I am in the menu 2 and I click the TITLE button in the players (tried 4 different), the menu nr. 3 appears!? If I am in teh menu 3 and I click TITLE the dvd remains in the menu 3.

I'll send you the DAR by email so that you can have a look to it and maybe find a solution! I really find it a strange way to work for DVDA! No problems with any other softwares, so looks to me more as a bug or a failure in the available settings!

Thank you!!
Raf

raf wrote on 3/15/2007, 3:25 AM

Hi bStro.
Ok, I understood the right things...but so I am even more surprised than before!!! I mean, if this would be a problem also for other softwares I could understand it, but.. I am authoring dvds from years with other programs and NEVER had this kind of problem...I make hundreds of copies for every job so I can say the variety of player used is quiet large!!!
I use Vegas from years to edit my videos and I wanted to begin with DVDA for author dvds...it has many other good qualities that other programs don't have, this is the reason I wanted to begin with it.
This "little" problem is making me crazy: I showed the first release of a dvd to a customer (important) and the first thing he noticed was right this: "the button TITLE is not bringing the dvd to the right menu" he said!!!! So, I have to find a solution or will have to re-auhtor the entire dvd with another software (DVD Workshop)!! :-((

Bye,
Raf

MPM wrote on 3/15/2007, 12:37 PM

If you have DVDA create chapt menus, go to the 1st submenu page, click the only available menu in Power DVD 6 [ "Title Menu"], you'll go to the 2nd submenu page. Click it on the 3rd submenu page, & you'll go to the 4th. To the user as raf pointed out, this can be confusing or upsetting depending on their personalities etc...

Personally my choice is to turn off all menu buttons when you're on a menu page -- if you've done your job well as a designer, on a menu page things like enabling "Title Menu" are at best redundant. And unless you're having DVDA create chapt menus for you, don't see a lot of compelling reasons to use submenu pages anyway -- a FWIW I guess because I haven't enabled & tried the "Title Menu" button on separate menu pages.

That said, DVDA creates a bunch of Dummy menu pages if you've ever looked at a DVDA created layout in PgcEdit. I'd *guess* that in the commands on those dummy pages they set a variable that translates into the Title Menu -- otherwise using my chapt menu example the result wouldn't change depending on the page you were viewing. In that case I assume john or George would be the ones to track it down; I don't know how easy it would be to implement -- if you'd have to edit your layout etc. -- & again personally I just disable the durned thing on menu pages to start with.

raf wrote on 3/18/2007, 1:31 PM

Hi MPM.
Please, excuse me but what you mean with " turn off the Title Menu button"? You maybe mean the "Top menu" in the Remote Buttons properties?

Raf

MPM wrote on 3/18/2007, 2:55 PM

Sorry... Yes DVDA calls it the Top Menu -- I was playing with a project using Power DVD & just stuck with their term (title menu). Checking remotes laying around here they just have the "Menu" button, so not sure what it's commonly called. DVDA preview doesn't even have it that I can find.

Myself, I normally disable it for menus & video, along with any other choices that don't make sense to me to have available, like angles when there aren't any, or audio if there's only one track. Otherwise figure it's just one more thing to potentially go wrong, & worse, something that I have no control over.

I have no idea how many people try to use that function, but I am confident that everyone's used to everything from cars to toasters not working the way they would probably design them, and just shrug their shoulders if that when they press the button and nothing happens. Then they either press the regular menu button, or click the button or whatever.

raf wrote on 3/19/2007, 1:41 AM

Right, this is the best way to go in this case. Anyway, DVDA is the only authoring software I know that has this problem....tried many different programs and with all of them the Menu button is bringing you to the previous menu and the Title Menu (or Top Menu) is bringing you to the Main Menu of the DVD!!!! In many cases you can decide what action to assign to these buttons!!!

I notice another "nice" thing of DVDA: is not posible to use different highlighting color combinations for every object/button in a menu!!!!!?? :-(

MPM wrote on 3/19/2007, 2:29 PM

Probably wouldn't hurt to mention this both to tech support & as a feature request based on your experience using other authoring software. Then maybe next update or version...

RE: Hi-liteing buttons...
Maybe mention that too... I think DVDA is ahead of many apps in being able to paste graphics into a sub track (as used for Anime), so maybe you'll find a receptive ear, assuming it's possible. I know with many (most?) authoring apps it's considered a cut & dry affair with 4 color masks & 4 colors per page, but I think that as an overlay track in the final DVD Layout, a lot more is possible.

In the mean time perhaps DVDSubEdit might help? If not, perhaps talk to the author in the Doom9.org forums?

ECB wrote on 3/19/2007, 3:05 PM

"I notice another "nice" thing of DVDA: is not posible to use different highlighting color combinations for every object/button in a menu!!!!!?? :-("

Raf, that is not 'exactly' true. If you use map color channel in the highlight mask you can set each button to have a different highlight color(s).

Ed B

MPM wrote on 3/20/2007, 2:50 PM

As far as I can tell mapping the highlight mask works sort of like DVD Author GUI and some other software where the color of an area on the mask determines which of the 4 categories it fits into: i.e. transparent, anti-alias, outline, & fill. [note: you can see examples of this mapping using DVDSubEdit -- works best for this illustration purpose on non-DVDA layouts]

Are you talking about sort of re-purposing their assignment Ed, where fill would act as fill for button *1*, & outline would fill button *2*, or is there a way to map entire color sets?

Thanks

ECB wrote on 3/20/2007, 5:13 PM

MPM,
I am just starting to work with highlight mask mapping. The Color Channel maps the color of the pixel(red, blue, green, black) in the highlight mask to each one of the four colors in the color set(s) selected in the menu for Selected, Activated, or Inactive buttons. For example a Selected button with a pixel containing any red in the mask maps to color 1 in the color set being used. For a test I created a highlight mask with pure red, green, blue and black bands. I set up color set 1 to match the color of the pixels in the mask (easy to see what was going on) with the fill color (color 1) red, Anti-alias color (color 2) green, outline/background color (color 3) blue, and transparent color (color 4) black. I added the background layers and loaded the submenu in DVDA4. All the layers loaded correctly and I had a button with a red,green,blue, black band highlight. By mixing the colors and objects in the mask you can do about anything you need. :) I hope this helps.

And then there is intensity mapping. :)

Ed