Track FX or buses?

PeterWright wrote on 6/5/2004, 6:39 PM
As per a separate thread, I've been having trouble with stuttering playback/crashes once I get to five tracks or more, and I'm wondering about all the factors which put a load on the processor / memory.

If I use buses instead of Track level FX, will that make it easier or harder for Vegas to keep going?

(I wish you could selectively prerender timeline passages or use ram render as with video)

I'm using Vaio P4 1.6 laptop/512 Mb ram, MAudio Quattro USB - currently I'm using Windows Classic Drivers, which still stutter but don't crash like ASIO does.

Comments

tmrpro wrote on 6/6/2004, 6:53 AM
Peter,

Are you still using two USB devices (USB HD and Quattro)?

If so, try moving your tracks to the local drive and removing the USB drive. You may be experiencing an over-usage of available USB power resources.

A couple of things to look in to, also:

What is your buffer set to on the Quattro?

Make sure it is the same buffer size as in Vegas' Advanced Audio Device setup.

If you are mixing or utilizing any plugins, you should have your buffers set to their default (at least) of 512 samples.

As far as using busses for effects:

Let's say you've recorded a trumpet player and have overdubbed 3 parts stacked twice to make it sound like a horn section. You now have a total of 6 tracks of trumpets.

If you wanted to use the same EQ and reverb on these six tracks, then it would not benefit you to apply these effects individually to the six tracks. You would get the same basic result (& better IMHO) by bussing these six tracks then effecting the buss.

The same would not neccesarily hold true for a drumset. You would use different types of EQ and reverb on individual tracks because those sounds would be very unique and different.

Another thing to take into consideration is; that every system's unique hardware configuration will react differently to different plugins and the combination of them.

You may find that using one occurence of AutoTune on one system may eat up all of your CPU, when on another system you can use a multitude of occurences of that same plugin.
PeterWright wrote on 6/6/2004, 6:33 PM
Thanks tmrpro for some valuable informatioon.

At present I have the Quattro on a built in USB1 connection, and the hard drive on USB2 via a PCMCIA card. Would these two USB connections share any resources? I can also use firewire for the hard drive, so I'll try that and let you know the result.

Buffer for the Quattro - I have latency set to Very Low in the Quattro panel, and under Prefs / Audio Device / Advanced, Buffering is set to 1 ms(80 samples)

I'm only using Sonic Foundry effects, no plug ins.

Thanks for the tips on busses.

I'll be doing some more tests this afternoon and will report back ....

thanks again

Peter

MJhig wrote on 6/6/2004, 6:56 PM
I have latency set to Very Low in the Quattro panel

Why? Are you recording live against previously recorded tracks? This is most likely your problem along with USB "1" and possibly sharing IRQs and too many USB devices sharing I/Os.

MJ
drbam wrote on 6/6/2004, 7:57 PM
>>I'm only using Sonic Foundry effects, no plug ins.<<

Sonic Foundry effects *are* plug ins. And they do use up resources like any other plug in, especially verbs and compressors.

drbam
tmrpro wrote on 6/6/2004, 8:27 PM
At present I have the Quattro on a built in USB1 connection

I would never attempt any type of audio throughput using USB1... Completely unstable for throughput.... That is why there is USB2

...and the hard drive on USB2 via a PCMCIA card.

This is another scenario that I prefer avoiding ....USB (1 or 2) on a PCMCIA buss.... this can be an IRQ nightmare in certain circumstances.

Would these two USB connections share any resources? I can also use firewire for the hard drive, so I'll try that and let you know the result.

Well, yes ..... but ... above and beyond the power resource issue you are using USB1 for your sound card with an expectation for consistant throughput and I don't believe that will ever happen.

Although I do not like using PCMCIA for USB, I would suggest to move your HD to firewire and your sound card to USB2. If you have any other USB devices, get rid of them when you are working with ANY multitrack App.

Buffer for the Quattro - I have latency set to Very Low in the Quattro panel, and under Prefs / Audio Device / Advanced, Buffering is set to 1 ms(80 samples)

That is too low. You must change it to 512 samples when using any plugins.

I'm only using Sonic Foundry effects, no plug ins.

The Sonic Foundry effects are plugins.

The program will default with EQ, Gate and Compressor... I prefer setting my default track properties to open without any plugins whatsoever. Start with nothing and only add what you must have ..... especially when recording

Hey, off the topic here....Peter .... are you the same Peter Wright on PublishSongs.Com?
PeterWright wrote on 6/6/2004, 9:09 PM
Thanks to all - I'm gradually getting somewhere.

Before I begin trying some more of your suggestions, I just managed a complete 10 track play through without stuttering - I noticed that the point at which most problems started was just after a 7 second acoustic guitar lick I had put between chorus and next verse. When I investigated, I found that I had applied Sonic Foundry ExpressFX Reverb to this. When I replaced this with the straight "Sonic Foundry Reverb" it stopped misbehaving, at least at this point.

It still seems to be struggling a little, though, so I'll now try some other changes.

I have had latency as low as possible, because I am doing a ten track recording - 2 x acoustic guitar, bass, maraccas and about 6 vocal tracks, recording one track at a time, and I want everything to stay tight!

Is it best to bypass all FX whilst recording at minimum latency, then put it out to 10 ms/ 512 samples, which is the "High" Setting for the Quattro, for playback with FX?

I'll also try putting the Quattro on USB2 with Hard drive on firewire.
My laptop, (18 month old Sony Vaio) only has USB1 built in so I have to use PCMCIA for USB2.

Thanks for all the help - I now have much more info to help solve the hassles!

tmrpro - no I'm not the PublishSongs.com PeterWright, but I am currently working on three entries for a West Australian Song competition - due this Friday.
tmrpro wrote on 6/7/2004, 8:36 AM
I have had latency as low as possible, because I am doing a ten track recording - 2 x acoustic guitar, bass, maraccas and about 6 vocal tracks, recording one track at a time, and I want everything to stay tight!

If you monitor from your sound card's control panel input mixer and turn off input monitoring on your channel in Vegas, you will not have auto input functionality, but you will not hear your performance track with any latency no matter what latency your sound card buffers are set to.

Is it best to bypass all FX whilst recording at minimum latency, then put it out to 10 ms/ 512 samples, which is the "High" Setting for the Quattro, for playback with FX?

That is correct.