Troubleshooting tips

SonyEPM wrote on 8/20/2003, 12:42 PM
A number of people are having trouble making DVDs on this forum, so I'd like to provide a few tips that may help you.

1) [edit1 /31/03] Make sure you have the current versions of Vegas and DVDA. If you have not downloaded and installed the latest updates from our site, please do so. [end edit]

2) The authoring process will go faster is you pre-encode your movies in Vegas. You can load a long .avi file in DVDA and have DVDA encode it, but it takes awhile and if you have to make a change (say to a menu title) your long movie has to get re-encoded. If you pre-encode your media assets in Vegas (video to MPEG-2 using the stock DVDA templates in the dropdown, audio as PCM or AC-3), the prepare stage in DVDA will be much faster.

3) Please use the stock MPEG-2 and AC-3 render templates in Vegas whenever possible when preparing content for DVDA -especially when you are first getting started. There's a ton of settings that can result in either an invalid file for DVDA or a file that DVDA will needlessly recompress. Once you can successfully make a DVD all the way through you can tweak settings as needed. Don't adjust the custom settings without budgeting in some research and troubleshooting time.

4) Alien files: Some of you use other encoders to prepare content for DVDA. Make sure you use the exact render settings found in the DVDA help file, see recompression topics. We do not test with MPEG-2 or PCM or AC-3 source files generated outside of our product line, so unless you have a special reason for using 3rd party encoders, use the native encoders in our apps.

5) [sorry, I have to write this] Ripping material from a pre-authored DVD: We offer no support for this. Assume, both legally and technically, that this is impossible with DVDA. Some of you have hacked your way through the process with various levels of success, but as far as support goes, you are on your own. Your machine could (in theory) explode into a 1000 foot fireball if you rip.

6) Markers- if you have timeline markers in Vegas or you add markers to a rendered file in the Vegas trimmer and save them there, they should be auto-loaded as chapter markers in DVDA when you add the file to DVDA. If you don't see the markers when you navigate into the video asset within DVDA, you can choose to reload the markers only or, in a pinch you can add new chapter markers in DVDA (you shouldn't have to do this last, importing markers with the file works fine for me).

7) Recompression: go to the optimize dialog. If there's a green checkmark next to a media asset, that source file will NOT be recompressed by DVDA. If there's not a green check mark, the file will be recompressed by DVDA. If you think something is being recompressed when it shouldn't be, check the optimize window's format and bitrate settings and make sure these match the source files.

8) Make sure you have plenty of spare prepare space- everything gets written to the drive first, and is burned after that.

9) If you are encountering a failure during the burn/prepare process, try to narrow it down. Is it a prepare (render) failure? Is it a burn failure? This is easily determined if you do it in two steps- do a prepare only. If that works, do a burn only. If you do a prepare+burn and wind up with an error message it MIGHT be a burn failure but look like a prepare error, especially if it is happening at the very end of the prepare process.

10) Some 3rd party burning software can cause burn failure within DVDA. Veritas is a common culprit. If you cannot burn, try removing other burning apps one at a time, starting with the Veritas stuff. Try a quick project prepare/burn after each uninstall to find the culprit. We continue to investigate this, but it should be noted that we don't break them, they break us.

11) Make sure you are burning to the right type of media for your drive- this happens all the time and is an easy mistake to make. Also, sometimes a given DVD blank is just bad- this happened to me- the DVD-RW media that came bundled with the drive was bad. I chased it for days...swapped out the media, all has been well ever since.

Anyway, if you follow all of the above steps, you should be able to make a great looking/sounding DVD without a bunch of headaches. While I wrote this I prepared/burned a 4.2 Gb DVD-r, no problems, plays great in my Sony DVD player. If after following all of this exactly you still can't finish a DVD, please post back and we'll see if we can help further.

Comments

TorS wrote on 8/20/2003, 4:07 PM
<<Your machine could (in theory) explode into a 1000 foot fireball if you rip.>>

...so make sure you have your camera handy. those shots are hard to come by!
Tor

(Anyway, where would we be without the Sonic Foundry people?)
vitalforce2 wrote on 8/20/2003, 4:29 PM
Not really troubleshooting question but topic related: If I'm burning a DVD to be projected to a large screen at a film festival, can you say if it would behoove me to burn at a conservative 1X speed and not faster? Less chance of artifacts, perhaps?
MarkFoley wrote on 8/21/2003, 2:19 PM
What is the difference (quality) in the final outcome of the DVD if you use the DVD NTSC template with MPEG-2 or the DVD NTSC video stream with a seperate .ac3 audio stream ?
bcbarnes wrote on 8/21/2003, 3:42 PM
editor3333,

Burn speed doesn't normally effect the quality of the video you see (or audio you hear). Of more importance is the compression quality.

That being said, if you burn at too fast a rate, such that you end up with marginal data, you can cause different players to have a hard time reading your disk, which may result in data loss during playback, and that can effect the audio/video quality.

Burning at a slower speed means that you are more likely to be able to play the disk on a wider variety of players.
SonyEPM wrote on 8/22/2003, 9:17 AM
"What is the difference (quality) in the final outcome of the DVD if you use the DVD NTSC template with MPEG-2 or the DVD NTSC video stream with a seperate .ac3 audio stream ? "

No difference in video quality if you use the "DVD NTSC" template or the "DVD Architect NTSC video stream" template. Note that the "DVD NTSC video stream" template produces an elementary stream and should only be used for 3rd party apps that require elementary streams (video quality is identical to the first two templates, the file itself is a different MPEG variant, that's all).

PCM has the highest audio quality, so you are advised to render audio as PCM (.wav, stereo 16/48) or AC-3 (if you need to fit more on the DVD or you are doing 5.1 projects).
JakeHannam wrote on 8/22/2003, 9:28 PM
SonicEPM,

Thanks for all the great tips! I'm sure it will help a lot of people avoid frustration.

You should make this a daily or weekly feature if you have the time and inclination.

Jake
craftech wrote on 8/23/2003, 10:18 AM
Thanks for that SonicEPM.

John
flicks wrote on 10/18/2003, 8:43 AM
Greetings,

After spending a large amount of time looking for some info relating to the problem I'm having, I found your post. Thanks for the info.

I have Vegas 4d and DVDA 1c.

I want to put a background video and audio on the main menu in DVDA. No matter what type of video file I render, the optimize window shows an "!" next to the video.

I've been told that these settings require no recompression in DVDA,
MainConcept MPEG-2 (*mpg), DVD Architect video stream

These do no work. I get the "!" no matter what format I render.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks
Udi wrote on 10/19/2003, 7:11 AM
You are doing nothing wrong - but menus will always recompress - the menu buttons, text etc. are all muxed together in this render.

Udi
LeeV wrote on 10/20/2003, 9:37 AM
I have found that a DVDA DVD will not play on a DVD only player. However, if the player can play mp3s or is an X-box it plays perfectly. Is there a setting that I'm over-looking? It seems to me that the header file is not telling the DVD player that it is a DVD. On a multi-format type of DVD player it seems to read the header file fine.
farss wrote on 10/20/2003, 10:09 AM
I only saw this thread that was started a long ago after it popped back up to the top.

I think many of us have worked out how to drive DVDA as it should be driven, unitl yesterday I had made around 50 DVDs with no real problems so I think I can say I have a good handle on what I'm doing.

Yesterday however I hit the file size calculation error. if that was all there was to it I wouldn't have cared but whilst rendering DVDA totally looses the plot. This problem only occurred when I added a scene selection menu and that from the markers added in VV prior to encoding with the default template.

To get the job out it had to go out with no scene selection menu, fortunately the client didn't expect one anyway.

This is not the only issue, DVDA authored disks will not play in some players. Same media, different applications authoring, same player, disks play. The results are consistent, 100% reliably the players will play other apps DVDs and not DVDAs ones. I say again I believe DVDA does not set the compatability bits, the plasyers see the media as DVD-R not DVD-Video. Sure later model players are better at this but I cannot see any downside to setting the bits.

Also there is a problem with menu item highlighting in PAL rendered DVDs on some players, DVDs from other apps seem no to exhibit this issue either.

I'm not having a whine here, but to suggest that the only problems people are having with DVDA is not doing it by the book is a tad simplistic, sure that accounts for a lot of the problems but there are real issues. I know how much work it takes to debug code but at least an acknowledgement of the problems and that they are being or will be looked into would be mighty reassuring for many fo us.
rcrawfor42 wrote on 10/20/2003, 1:27 PM
It may be the media type. I seem to recall that not all set-top boxes will play recordable media.
LeeV wrote on 10/20/2003, 5:08 PM
I think Farss is on to somehthing. "I say again I believe DVDA does not set the compatability bits, the plasyers see the media as DVD-R not DVD-Video."

I have noticed that a DVDA DVD will only play on a multiformat player. There must be some type of setting that prevents it from working on a DVD only player. Does anybody know if there is a switch in the software to allow a DVD-R vs DVD-Video?
farss wrote on 10/20/2003, 5:50 PM
There is no 'switch' in DVDA, although there was someone in this forum talking about a program that let you do it to a burnt DVD, sorry but of course that only worked with RW media.
mfhau wrote on 10/21/2003, 5:04 AM
OK - I am an absolute newbie with DVD burning. The tips are great - just a few more questions from someone about to embark on production of 50+ DVDs for the end of school year here in Australia (school year ends in Nov for Seniors). It will consist of movies and stills.
I have just bought the Sony DRU510A:

I hereby swear not to change any settings in any template anywhere.

So do I use + or - , the final product is going to everyone in the class so multiple playback devices.

Will burning at 4x be much different from burning 1x ?

Any pointers much appreciated.
farss wrote on 10/21/2003, 5:25 AM
From my experience you'll get more compatibility with -R than +R.

+R is a technically superior format but I've even got a DVD player that claims to play +R that will not look at DVD+R Video yet plays MP3s on DVD+R and plays DVD+RW, figure that out. It plays DVD-R video OK as does most things. You'll still run into players though that will play nothing of burnt DVD.
garo wrote on 1/31/2004, 4:13 PM
I get a Too little space in Temp catalog to Burn - any one recognise this problem?

//Garo
ScottW wrote on 2/10/2004, 2:34 PM
The 'book type' setting cannot be changed on -R - it's not something that you can burn into the media, the media comes that way (at least that's my understanding). This is different than +R which does actually requires that your burner, burn the 'bok type' that is desired, either DVD+R or DVD-ROM.

You can pick up the utility to change the book type at www.dvdplusrw.org

A couple of things to be aware of....

Dual format burners (at least those that I've checked on) do not currently allow you to specify the book type. The media in the drive dictates what gets written.

Single format +R/+RW burners usually allow you to change the book type with the bitsetting utility - the notable exception to this is Sony; they've not released info on how to tell the firmware to do this. The solution to this is to flash new firmware (such as Ricoh) onto the Sony burner (the drawback is if you use some free application that came with your Sony burner, it may stop working since your drive doesn't identify as a Sony any longer. You can get away with the firmware flash because most of the earlier drives are sourced from a single hardware vendor; it's just the firmware that makes the drives look different. I don't know if a single vendor is still the case for the more recent drives. Doing the firmware dance is a little tricky, and should probably not be undertaken unless you really, really need to do it.

--Scott
SonyEPM wrote on 2/10/2004, 5:17 PM
DO NOT attempt to put incorrect firmware on your drive!!!

Sorry, no offense to ScottW, I'm sure you said this with good intentions and some level of research behind you BUT: this type of hack not only can instantly void support for the drive and the software, this bogus advice can easily mutate from rumor to fact. Pretty soon its "Yo I read on the Sony forum, one of the guys said flash my new Sony drive with Ricoh firmware. I did this right after I installed DVD Architect and now Windows won't even see my drive. What is it with those idiots!????"

ScottW wrote on 2/10/2004, 8:46 PM
Well, I might argue with the bogus advice aspect, but of course you are absolutely correct. If the drive vendor will not support you, your best option is to find another vendor (on the list of supported drives) and do business with them; in all liikelyhood you can probably sell your Sony drive on eBay and recoup at least some of your investment (I was able to sell my Matrox RT2500 capture card on eBay for the price I paid for it - so I consider that I was quite lucky since I only wasted 80+ hours trying to get it to actually work).

The advice was probably not bogus, since it clearly worked for my particular situation. By flashing Ricoh firmware on my drive, I was actually able to use it to write +R's (using the DVD-ROM book format) that could be read by every player I had. A novice should not approach this particular exercise though.

As always, your milage may vary...
msmithers wrote on 2/11/2004, 6:31 AM
I agree.... here's my run in with the size calculation bug.
----------------
Hi,

I recently struck the problem of multiple instances of the prerendered MPEG video turning up in "optimize" - thus doubling the size of my project and taking it well over the 4.7GB DVD-R limit.

I found that after I completed my DVD project (including detailed scene selection pages) my prerendered AC3 file was a little short. I rendered a new one in Vegas and when I changed DVDA to use the new AC3 file, suddenly two instances of the video appeared in "optimize."

If I undo the AC3 change, the second video instance goes away.

For any Sony people watching - this is a bug. Please fix this.

Regards,
Michael