trxfr ADAT questions

acegrube wrote on 4/5/2000, 3:36 PM
I've been using VP strictly as a small writing/project
studio but would like to try something a little more
adventurous. I have 14 tracks of ADAT on three different
tapes that were made at a live concert my band played.

I would like to move the information from the ADAT's into
VP and here's the thing, I don't have lightpipe, or 24
track analog audio input. I'm OK with re-sampling the
sources, i.e. running out the analog outs of the ADATs
prior to recording to my hd. I'm running a LynxOne, which
is a very nice card but only has two analog, and two
AES/EBU ins(thinking of buying a dbx pre w/ad conversion.
I'm told by Lynx that recording simultaneously through the
analog and dig ins works in that the tracks won't drift
apart over time, but there will be something on the order
of a 40 sample delay between the two sources.) Will this
be a problem? The best information I can find says that as
long as stereo pairs aren't split up across this delay and
there is good seperation on the individual tracks it
shouldn't be. I.e no audible comb filtering.

Next question is, since I can only record 4 tracks max at a
time I will have to re-sample in multiple takes. I've heard
that this can cause track drifting. I imagine aligning the
groups of 2 or 4 tracks from each re-sampling take would be
arduous, but it seems do-able to within a few
milliseconds. But, if two seperate takes are aligned up at
the start of the information is there any gaurantee that
they will stay in sync for the duration of their playback?


Bottom line: Am I crazy for thinking about this. Are
there more caveats and pitfalls with this then Carter has
pills? The other option would be to find a studio that has
3 20-bit Alesis ADATs, the ability to pipe or resample 24
trks on to a PC that is running VP. They could create
the .veg file and burn a cd for me then, couldn't they?
Then I could tweak the mix on my system.

PS I don't want to buy a different audio interface right
now, I really like the Lynx and don't want to give up it's
great dig converters for a one time need. If this is a dumb
idea then I will just farm out this project.

Thanks in advance for the help, and hey go easy on me, I'm
fairly new at this stuff.

Erich Gruber

Comments

saff wrote on 4/5/2000, 4:46 PM
Erich --

Just one man's opinion ...

If you have *a lot* of time to spare, you can go ahead and give your
proposed concept a go, but don't hope for much. I would be very
surprised if you didn't run into sync problems. In fact, I'd probably
wager money that you would not be able to get the tracks synced to
your satisfaction. I have tried much simpler "manual" syncing in the
past with OK results, and even then, I had to screw with things to
make it work. And that was just getting one guitar track to sync with
a two-track stereo mix!

You would probably be better off going to the kind of studio you list
below (equipped with at least 24 tracks of ADAT format deck, at least
14 tracks of 20-bit A/D converter, Vegas Pro, and a CD burner). It
wouldn't take too long, so I'm guessing it wouldn't cost too much,
and then you could take the CDR (contianing the .veg file and the
associated .wavs) home and mix to your heart's content.

If you find that this kind of project is something you'd like to do
more of in the future, you'll have to upgrade your hardware. In that
case, I highly recommend the Frontier Dakota card and Frontier's
Tango24 A/D D/A converters as an upgrade. Their stuff works great
with Vegas. Using my ADATs and my Dakota, I transfer 16 tracks into
Vegas simultaneously (from both ADAT and analog formats) all the time
with great results.

Good luck,
Carl

Erich Grube wrote:
>>I've been using VP strictly as a small writing/project
>>studio but would like to try something a little more
>>adventurous. I have 14 tracks of ADAT on three different
>>tapes that were made at a live concert my band played.
>>
>>I would like to move the information from the ADAT's into
>>VP and here's the thing, I don't have lightpipe, or 24
>>track analog audio input. I'm OK with re-sampling the
>>sources, i.e. running out the analog outs of the ADATs
>>prior to recording to my hd. I'm running a LynxOne, which
>>is a very nice card but only has two analog, and two
>>AES/EBU ins(thinking of buying a dbx pre w/ad conversion.
>>I'm told by Lynx that recording simultaneously through the
>>analog and dig ins works in that the tracks won't drift
>>apart over time, but there will be something on the order
>>of a 40 sample delay between the two sources.) Will this
>>be a problem? The best information I can find says that as
>>long as stereo pairs aren't split up across this delay and
>>there is good seperation on the individual tracks it
>>shouldn't be. I.e no audible comb filtering.
>>
>>Next question is, since I can only record 4 tracks max at a
>>time I will have to re-sample in multiple takes. I've heard
>>that this can cause track drifting. I imagine aligning the
>>groups of 2 or 4 tracks from each re-sampling take would be
>>arduous, but it seems do-able to within a few
>>milliseconds. But, if two seperate takes are aligned up at
>>the start of the information is there any gaurantee that
>>they will stay in sync for the duration of their playback?
>>
>>
>>Bottom line: Am I crazy for thinking about this. Are
>>there more caveats and pitfalls with this then Carter has
>>pills? The other option would be to find a studio that has
>>3 20-bit Alesis ADATs, the ability to pipe or resample 24
>>trks on to a PC that is running VP. They could create
>>the .veg file and burn a cd for me then, couldn't they?
>>Then I could tweak the mix on my system.
>>
>>PS I don't want to buy a different audio interface right
>>now, I really like the Lynx and don't want to give up it's
>>great dig converters for a one time need. If this is a dumb
>>idea then I will just farm out this project.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for the help, and hey go easy on me, I'm
>>fairly new at this stuff.
>>
>>Erich Gruber
acegrube wrote on 4/5/2000, 6:03 PM
Thanks for the reply. Pretty much validated what I suspected. Do
the Dakota pieces run under NT4.0? Are you or anyone out there using
them under NT4.0, if so how's it working.

Carl Saff wrote:
>>Erich --
>>
>>Just one man's opinion ...
>>
>>If you have *a lot* of time to spare, you can go ahead and give
your
>>proposed concept a go, but don't hope for much. I would be very
>>surprised if you didn't run into sync problems. In fact, I'd
probably
>>wager money that you would not be able to get the tracks synced to
>>your satisfaction. I have tried much simpler "manual" syncing in
the
>>past with OK results, and even then, I had to screw with things to
>>make it work. And that was just getting one guitar track to sync
with
>>a two-track stereo mix!
>>
>>You would probably be better off going to the kind of studio you
list
>>below (equipped with at least 24 tracks of ADAT format deck, at
least
>>14 tracks of 20-bit A/D converter, Vegas Pro, and a CD burner). It
>>wouldn't take too long, so I'm guessing it wouldn't cost too much,
>>and then you could take the CDR (contianing the .veg file and the
>>associated .wavs) home and mix to your heart's content.
>>
>>If you find that this kind of project is something you'd like to do
>>more of in the future, you'll have to upgrade your hardware. In
that
>>case, I highly recommend the Frontier Dakota card and Frontier's
>>Tango24 A/D D/A converters as an upgrade. Their stuff works great
>>with Vegas. Using my ADATs and my Dakota, I transfer 16 tracks into
>>Vegas simultaneously (from both ADAT and analog formats) all the
time
>>with great results.
>>
>>Good luck,
>>Carl
>>
>>Erich Grube wrote:
>>>>I've been using VP strictly as a small writing/project
>>>>studio but would like to try something a little more
>>>>adventurous. I have 14 tracks of ADAT on three different
>>>>tapes that were made at a live concert my band played.
>>>>
>>>>I would like to move the information from the ADAT's into
>>>>VP and here's the thing, I don't have lightpipe, or 24
>>>>track analog audio input. I'm OK with re-sampling the
>>>>sources, i.e. running out the analog outs of the ADATs
>>>>prior to recording to my hd. I'm running a LynxOne, which
>>>>is a very nice card but only has two analog, and two
>>>>AES/EBU ins(thinking of buying a dbx pre w/ad conversion.
>>>>I'm told by Lynx that recording simultaneously through the
>>>>analog and dig ins works in that the tracks won't drift
>>>>apart over time, but there will be something on the order
>>>>of a 40 sample delay between the two sources.) Will this
>>>>be a problem? The best information I can find says that as
>>>>long as stereo pairs aren't split up across this delay and
>>>>there is good seperation on the individual tracks it
>>>>shouldn't be. I.e no audible comb filtering.
>>>>
>>>>Next question is, since I can only record 4 tracks max at a
>>>>time I will have to re-sample in multiple takes. I've heard
>>>>that this can cause track drifting. I imagine aligning the
>>>>groups of 2 or 4 tracks from each re-sampling take would be
>>>>arduous, but it seems do-able to within a few
>>>>milliseconds. But, if two seperate takes are aligned up at
>>>>the start of the information is there any gaurantee that
>>>>they will stay in sync for the duration of their playback?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bottom line: Am I crazy for thinking about this. Are
>>>>there more caveats and pitfalls with this then Carter has
>>>>pills? The other option would be to find a studio that has
>>>>3 20-bit Alesis ADATs, the ability to pipe or resample 24
>>>>trks on to a PC that is running VP. They could create
>>>>the .veg file and burn a cd for me then, couldn't they?
>>>>Then I could tweak the mix on my system.
>>>>
>>>>PS I don't want to buy a different audio interface right
>>>>now, I really like the Lynx and don't want to give up it's
>>>>great dig converters for a one time need. If this is a dumb
>>>>idea then I will just farm out this project.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance for the help, and hey go easy on me, I'm
>>>>fairly new at this stuff.
>>>>
>>>>Erich Gruber
saff wrote on 4/6/2000, 10:52 AM
Glad you brought that up -- I don't know about their other products,
but the Dakota card does not yet have NT drivers. Bummer.

Erich Grube wrote:
>>Thanks for the reply. Pretty much validated what I suspected. Do
>>the Dakota pieces run under NT4.0? Are you or anyone out there
using
>>them under NT4.0, if so how's it working.
>>
>>Carl Saff wrote:
>>>>Erich --
>>>>
>>>>Just one man's opinion ...
>>>>
>>>>If you have *a lot* of time to spare, you can go ahead and give
>>your
>>>>proposed concept a go, but don't hope for much. I would be very
>>>>surprised if you didn't run into sync problems. In fact, I'd
>>probably
>>>>wager money that you would not be able to get the tracks synced
to
>>>>your satisfaction. I have tried much simpler "manual" syncing in
>>the
>>>>past with OK results, and even then, I had to screw with things
to
>>>>make it work. And that was just getting one guitar track to sync
>>with
>>>>a two-track stereo mix!
>>>>
>>>>You would probably be better off going to the kind of studio you
>>list
>>>>below (equipped with at least 24 tracks of ADAT format deck, at
>>least
>>>>14 tracks of 20-bit A/D converter, Vegas Pro, and a CD burner).
It
>>>>wouldn't take too long, so I'm guessing it wouldn't cost too
much,
>>>>and then you could take the CDR (contianing the .veg file and the
>>>>associated .wavs) home and mix to your heart's content.
>>>>
>>>>If you find that this kind of project is something you'd like to
do
>>>>more of in the future, you'll have to upgrade your hardware. In
>>that
>>>>case, I highly recommend the Frontier Dakota card and Frontier's
>>>>Tango24 A/D D/A converters as an upgrade. Their stuff works great
>>>>with Vegas. Using my ADATs and my Dakota, I transfer 16 tracks
into
>>>>Vegas simultaneously (from both ADAT and analog formats) all the
>>time
>>>>with great results.
>>>>
>>>>Good luck,
>>>>Carl
>>>>
>>>>Erich Grube wrote:
>>>>>>I've been using VP strictly as a small writing/project
>>>>>>studio but would like to try something a little more
>>>>>>adventurous. I have 14 tracks of ADAT on three different
>>>>>>tapes that were made at a live concert my band played.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would like to move the information from the ADAT's into
>>>>>>VP and here's the thing, I don't have lightpipe, or 24
>>>>>>track analog audio input. I'm OK with re-sampling the
>>>>>>sources, i.e. running out the analog outs of the ADATs
>>>>>>prior to recording to my hd. I'm running a LynxOne, which
>>>>>>is a very nice card but only has two analog, and two
>>>>>>AES/EBU ins(thinking of buying a dbx pre w/ad conversion.
>>>>>>I'm told by Lynx that recording simultaneously through the
>>>>>>analog and dig ins works in that the tracks won't drift
>>>>>>apart over time, but there will be something on the order
>>>>>>of a 40 sample delay between the two sources.) Will this
>>>>>>be a problem? The best information I can find says that as
>>>>>>long as stereo pairs aren't split up across this delay and
>>>>>>there is good seperation on the individual tracks it
>>>>>>shouldn't be. I.e no audible comb filtering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Next question is, since I can only record 4 tracks max at a
>>>>>>time I will have to re-sample in multiple takes. I've heard
>>>>>>that this can cause track drifting. I imagine aligning the
>>>>>>groups of 2 or 4 tracks from each re-sampling take would be
>>>>>>arduous, but it seems do-able to within a few
>>>>>>milliseconds. But, if two seperate takes are aligned up at
>>>>>>the start of the information is there any gaurantee that
>>>>>>they will stay in sync for the duration of their playback?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bottom line: Am I crazy for thinking about this. Are
>>>>>>there more caveats and pitfalls with this then Carter has
>>>>>>pills? The other option would be to find a studio that has
>>>>>>3 20-bit Alesis ADATs, the ability to pipe or resample 24
>>>>>>trks on to a PC that is running VP. They could create
>>>>>>the .veg file and burn a cd for me then, couldn't they?
>>>>>>Then I could tweak the mix on my system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PS I don't want to buy a different audio interface right
>>>>>>now, I really like the Lynx and don't want to give up it's
>>>>>>great dig converters for a one time need. If this is a dumb
>>>>>>idea then I will just farm out this project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks in advance for the help, and hey go easy on me, I'm
>>>>>>fairly new at this stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Erich Gruber