Trying to position myself for HDV. Please help.

GordyHinky wrote on 5/18/2004, 12:51 AM
I'm wanting to position myself so any investment in equipment I make today will work with HDV and progressive scan TV tomorrow. What would you suggest for decks and monitors (NTSC, etc).

What decks will work (or are anticipated to work) with HDV? What monitors will work with HDV? Is having an NTSC monitor such as the JVC TM-H1700GU going to be a problem with viewing HDV progressive?

Basically how is HDV going to work and what is needed to work with it? Or what is needed that is different from what we use today?

Comments

PeterWright wrote on 5/18/2004, 6:00 AM
Good questions Gordy.

Although HDV is going to record on MiniDV, I expect to have to buy another deck to be able to read it, so I wouldn't fork out on a Mini DV deck right now.

As far as positioning is concerned - I feel very lucky. I bought one of the first 3CCD mini DV cameras - Panasonic EZ1 - (no firewire!) in 1996 , and I still use it as my main camera. This year I was on the verge of getting a PD170, then I heard about HDV.

I'm hoping my trusty EZ1 will see me through another year ..... or so ...
JJKizak wrote on 5/18/2004, 6:19 AM
My .02.
Right now there are 2 cameras, both from JVC in the low price range for HDV. There are also a D-VHS deck and Mini-DV deck from JVC.
Everything else starts at $15K and up to $100K. Monitors go to $35K.
HDV is in the world of 19.4 meg MPEG2 bitstream which is what the networks use to transport their HDTV programs. The quality is stupendous when viewed on an HDTV tube type. What I do at present is 1. View the programs using the MY-HD2 tuner card.
2. Capture the programs with the 24 meg mpeg2 bitstream to hardrive using the MY-HD 2 card. And play back (no quality loss)
3. Record the programs to the JVC D-VHS deck through firewire (no quality loss)
4. Capture the programs from the JVC D-VHS deck or the JVC camera with Cineform Connect HD software provided it is 19.4 meg bitstream.
5. Convert the captured programs (19.4-720 x 30p only) with the Connect HD to avi files to place on the Vegas timeline.
6. Edit in Vegas then render to the suggested settings from Cineform. Change the file ending from mpg to m2t and then export to JVC D-VHS tape with Connect HD or Print to JVC camera or change the file ending from mpg to tp and view it with the MY-HD2 card.
7. Using the suggested settings for Vegas by Cineform assemble
2275 x 2275 still jpg's on timeline with sound an render as above.
(absolutely stunning)
8. Assemble HD-WMV test files from Microsoft on Vegas timeline and render as above. (absolutely stunning)
9. The quality matches the best the networks have to offer (live shows) and is consistantly better per the given length of the program
as the networks have big problems with some shots on live programs.
10. DVD playback not available yet but they are working on the Blue-Ray and Red -Laser systems. The blue ray will be very expensive and the movie people will be pushing it because it has built in copyright protection. That means you no make copy. The red laser system is for all of us peons and will be cheaper. Probably not backword compatible which means you must purchase all new stuff. Also the Cineform products will not capture or convert copyrighted programs. Most of the programs have the HD icon continually broadcast in the lower right corner of the screen. New cameras from Canon, Sony, and Sharp are rumored to be ready sometime this year maybe. But then if you have bucks, buy the new Viper camera for $100K. Its the same size as a Canon XL-1s.
11. I have everything but the camera as I am waiting patiently for the Sony or Canon model. There is a big huge problem with lenses for these cameras as currently they cost $8K. The HDV lenses have to come way down in price to get the cameras in the $5K price range.
There is also a concern that if they come out with a $5K camera it will compete with the $15K and up cameras and they don't like that very much. The difference between HDV and HD as far as the consumer (TV watcher) is concerned is none. The theatre HD is slated around to be the HD-2K level.

JJK
Bill Ravens wrote on 5/18/2004, 6:35 AM
Great synopsis, JJK, thanx.
HDV sure isn't ready for prime time yet, at least not on the prosumer level.
A company called V, Inc. is about ready to release a set-top DVD player that can play WMV-HD format. I'm holding my breath for this one.
slambubba wrote on 5/18/2004, 6:51 AM
are there any good site(s) where someone with no clue can learn what HDV is all about?
Bill Ravens wrote on 5/18/2004, 7:33 AM
try this for starters:

WWW. HDVIDEOGUYS.COM
JJKizak wrote on 5/18/2004, 7:40 AM
Another one would be "www.digitalconnection.com" . And don't forget
John_Cline on this forum.

JJK
filmy wrote on 5/18/2004, 4:30 PM
>>>HDV sure isn't ready for prime time yet, at least not on the prosumer level.<<<

Soeaking of 'prime time' - CBS shoot a mid-season show with these "prosumer" cameras. People are using them and by all accounts those who have taken the time to learn the cameras are very very happy with them. One of my best friends is a DP and I respect his opinion highly when it comes to most issues however he played with one for all of 15 minutes before he deemed it unworthy. So, I will take people who have shot features, shorts and network shows over anyone who has only shot less than 15 minutes at a trade show or in a show room.
GordyHinky wrote on 5/18/2004, 6:04 PM
What JVC Mini-DV deck are you refering that is set up for HDV? What is HDTV tube type? What is MY-HD2?
Yoyodyne wrote on 5/18/2004, 8:41 PM
I have the first DVD player made by V inc, the Bravo D1, It upconverts DVD's to 1080i HD and sends it out over the DVI cable to my Panasonic HD set. The upconverted signal looks no different to my eye than the standard 480 signal but I like seeing that 1080 number up there when I turn on the
DVD player! The real story on this thing is the DVI out - DVD's are incredibly sharp (dare I say almost HD like) and it has the best DVD picture I've ever seen.

Now the down side, while the Bravo D1 is cheap, under $200 bucks and the picture is incredible (through DVI) it has a pretty iffy reputation for reliability. lots of loader problems, won't play certain DVD's, and the worst problem I heard of - it will eat your DVD and won't give it back. Some guys have had to send it back to V inc to have them get it out.

Mine has worked pretty well but it is very finicky about DVD's. Like BillRavens I've also been waiting for the WM9 HD player they announced (I think its the Bravo D3) a while ago but I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

for more info on this check out the AVS forum - a great home theater forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php

filmy wrote on 5/19/2004, 4:50 AM
>>> What JVC Mini-DV deck are you refering that is set up for HDV?<<<
JVC CU-VH1US

>>> What is MY-HD2?<<<

It is a card that goes in your PC. If you read the AVS forums many people use it to capture HD signals from their DirectTV/Satellite. It seesm to have other uses too - working with HDV in Vegas and outputting the resulting m2t files to D-VHS for example. Here is some info on it - http://www.mitinc.co.kr/mitinc/e_site/prod/prod_mdp100.jsp
JJKizak wrote on 5/19/2004, 5:34 AM
HDTV tube type (HDTV with conventional crt, not LCD or Plasma screen) in 16 x 9 configuration which I believe the largest is 40". Since I have a Sony KV-34HS510 that is the only set I can relate to. The MY-HD 120 card is a combination capture/view High Definition card that is designed to work in your computer with another optional DVI output daughter card. The JVC mini-dv deck ($1957.00 at B & H Photo) is an up-convert/down convert HDV mini-dv/DV recorder/player. The MY-HD card is at www.digitalconnection.com.

JJK