Two Things That Should be Easier

VegasVidKid wrote on 6/20/2004, 2:17 PM

One of the most underrated features of Pinnacle Studio is how it captures video and creates scenes automatically without creating separate AVI files for each split. I tape and edit lots of baseball games. Anyone who’s ever watched one knows that there’s usually about 5 minutes of footage that’s worth keeping in a 2 to 3 hour game. So, I generally pause and restart my camcorder between pitches, which results in hundreds of splits/scenes. The way Studio captures and creates scenes makes it much easier to find and edit the highlights quickly. There’s no benefit to having hundreds of these little AVI files to manage, especially when Vegas doesn’t allow you to easily recombine scenes after you’ve split them (unless you undo the split right away or use Excalibur). I’d rather start off with one file with hundreds of splits than with hundreds of little files. How would you approach this in Vegas? And what’s the best way to scrub through them?

On a related note, when you’re editing with Studio, there is a razor blade icon that lets you split scenes (like pressing “S”) and a trash can icon that lets you remove them from the timeline (like clicking the Scissors icon in Vegas). I’m kind of lazy and have gotten used to doing all my editing with the mouse. I figured it would be easy to create an icon that I could click to split a scene. I thought I could just record a macro, press the S key and assign it to a toolbar button. But there is no macro recorder… Apparently, “all I need to know” is how to program in VBScript or JavaScript in the .Net Framework, which is as user-friendly as barbed-wire bed sheets. I’m pretty computer savvy, but I’d think there should be a simple macro recorder or template to help you get started. Does anyone have a script that will just do the split? Thanks!

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 6/20/2004, 3:06 PM

I started with Studio, so I know what you are talking about. I've brought up the same issue in these forums in the past, but people here have gotten used to having hundreds of AVI files around, and don't appreciate the beauty of having one AVI file, and a separate file that contains the scene information. (Of course, there are many things to like about having separate AVI files, such as being able to free up space by deleting AVIs for which you have no use).

I was going to write a script that would let you capture with scene detection disabled, and then automatically put markers on the timeline whenever a discontinuity in the AVI timecode was detected. Unfortunately, Vegas doesn't let a script read any of the data from the AVI file, so that didn't work.

As I am writing this, another idea occurred to me. If you capture video using Scenalyzer, one of the options is to capture in a single file and create a separate "SCN" file, which is the Pinnacle file that contains the scene information. It would probably be possible (and not that difficult) to create a simple tool that would extract the scene information from this file, and then pass that information to a Vegas script that could put markers on the timeline where scenes change.

I am amazed that Sony hasn't included this (scene detction to markers)in their capture application -- it would be absolutely trivial to do. However, having said that, they didn't make any changes whatsoever to the capture application when they released Vegas 5, so I don't think "better capture" is a hot button. Too bad, if true, because there are over a dozen things they could do to the capture process that could dramatically improve workflow. As far as I am concerned, workflow enhancements trump anything else when it comes to a video editing suite: I want everything to finish sooner.

VegasVidKid wrote on 6/20/2004, 3:47 PM

Thanks, John. Glad (and disappointed) to hear I wasn't missing something obvious. In this respect, Vegas seems a bit like a Ferrari that requires a hand crank to start up.

FuTz wrote on 6/20/2004, 4:56 PM

I once asked for a little thingy in the corner of the Capture window: a counter that would actually give us the number of the clip being digitalized so I would be able to discard right after capture at least the worst of my stock shot.

One of the answers was: "what's the point of staying in front of your computer when you capture? Just watch it after. It's a loss of time. Make the dishes while you capture" (or something very close to it).

I think it goes in the same direction than what you're pointing out right now... we HAVE to watch all those clips after capture when some of us could have a different approach that's more efficient for what they do.

Just asking for simple little counter brought me this kind of answer (I "work like a dumb") so imagine if you actually compare Vegas with another brand's app...
Good luck guys and count me in for that feature you're asking for !

VegasVidKid wrote on 6/20/2004, 5:55 PM

Yes- that means that you have to allow for double the time to capture it and to mark it up. That can become pretty time consuming when you're capturing 3-4 hrs' worth of footage for a highlights reel. Studio even allows you to manually split into scenes by hitting the spacebar while you capture.

DavidMcKnight wrote on 6/20/2004, 6:36 PM

I've tried to block a lot of the Studio expericene out of my mind, but one fact keeps creeping up - a lot of it is very intuitive to use (when it works), and this is a perfect example. And one that I didn't really think about. I usually turn scene dectection off in Vegas, because I don't WANT dozens of avi files that I have to preview. I prefer to work with one big file and make cuts as I go. But, scene detection combined with a single avi would be a great benefit. The answer to gettting that right now is of course, use Scenealyzer.

Grazie wrote on 6/20/2004, 11:18 PM

Yes, I'ev used Studio too .. .

In Vageas, what is wrong with the part of the Capture process where it gives you the option - I THINK! - where you get a thumbnail of the clip just captured AND the option to manage the captured clips therre . .meaning delete?

I've just got myself up-skilled on Advance Capture and using my Contour Shuttle Pro with the Second row of Buttons for the Mark In and Mark Out on the fly WHAT I want totcapture . .I then send the Batch Capture off to do its thing . . It is really neat! Works very nicely .. . I suppose what would be neat would be for Advance Capture "seek" for breaks in time code giving me the option to reivew "before" I commit to a Batch Capture item - yeah? Sony you listnenning?

Any good chaps? .. . Or have I missed the plot .. again?

Grazie

Grazie

epirb wrote on 6/21/2004, 5:30 AM

I tend to agree with Grazie, why noy use Batch capture to preview your tape before capture/recording to yourHD. Its esentially doing the same thing but saving hard drive space.
I'm assuming B4 - if you had one large file, then place it on the time line, then slice it up and delete the sections you dont want, your going thru the whole tape anyway.
Why not review it in Batch capture, mark the parts you want with a little head and tail, take a break and let the capture process do the weeding out! No large file on the HD,just the small keeper bits you want.

Or am I not fully understanding your statement?

tbone66 wrote on 6/21/2004, 6:38 AM

A friend showed me FC4 quite awhile back and one thing that caught my eye during capture was, just like VidKid said about Studio, he could simply hit a key (the spacebar?) over and over to begin capturing and end capturing without ever stopping the tape, breaking the tape into different captured files.

I have recently begun using the batch capture feature of Vegas, but it is a hit and miss (no pun intended) affair when it comes to my D8 camcorder stopping during the logging process. I have told Vegas, using the checkbox in the preferences, to treat the spacebar as a Start/Pause button and not a Start/Stop button, but the behavior seems unchanged. This could be related to the collection of hardware, but I don't believe so. Also, the keyboard shortcuts for transport control seem a little sluggish at times and is one of the reasons I'm planning on picking up a Shuttle Pro V2.

I really wish that when you mark an Out point in the capture utility while setting up batch capturing, Vegas would automatically pause the tape. That would give me time to make any changes in the clip comment field and actually press the Log Clip button. Then I could simply hit Mark In, press spacebar to start the camera rolling again, and hit Mark Out at the appropriate point and repeat the process.

Hope this makes sense. If there is a better way of doing this than I described, please post it!

Also, the whole procedure of setting up a new 'Project' concerning the capture utility and how to manage things seems a little confusing. I recently brought in two tapes of my sister's wedding (shot by a family friend - not professional!) and wanted to keep the clips separated on the harddrive (a folder for each tape), but of course, have them together as far as the project is concerned, with 'Tape 1' and 'Tape 2' as the beginning of each clip name. I got what I wanted, but it seems there should be a less "involved" way of re-specifying the folder for a capture than having to go into the menu - a button to open a directory dialog would be great. If there is a way to do this that I have missed, please hit me over the head with it as well!

Thanks!!

Tbone

Grazie wrote on 6/21/2004, 6:53 AM

Ah . . NOW you ARE making a lot of sense . . . Previously I've contented myself with that which Vegas allows .. and that which I know about .. any other takers on making Capture more intuitive than the "I" and "O" keys and the Contour Controls?

Grazie

Randy Brown wrote on 6/21/2004, 7:10 AM

Hey VegasVidKid, I've never used Pinnacle (so maybe I'm not understanding how this feature could be advantageous) but I too do lots of sports including baseball. I'd like to share a workflow with you that I feel couldn't be any easier or faster; if I'm wrong please let me know.

Capture using scene detection to a folder titled "raw (and whatever date)".
Throw all clips on the timeline.
Scrub using the new feature in V5 (it's taken the place of Shuttle Pro for me)...especially fast if you can look for audio peaks of the crowd cheering.
When I find a clip I want, I slip edit and render as an .avi into the the players folder and delete the "raw" folder when finished editing.

What used to take me an hour per game to edit, now takes 10 to 20 minutes per game.
I would hate to come across as some kind of "know-it-all" but thought you might get something out of this.

Randy

EW wrote on 6/21/2004, 10:16 AM

I was just about to suggest something similar. Scene detection creates many SEQUENTIAL files. So after capture, you can select them all, drop them on the timeline which effectively recreates the entire tape, but with pre-split scenes. Then simply delete the clips you don't need.

VegasVidKid wrote on 6/21/2004, 4:48 PM

Thanks! Many of you have provided good ideas that I'll try out, now that I realize what the actual limitations are. Randy, I actually did try something like what you described initially. I don't have 5.0 yet, so I don't know how the new scrubbing works, but I certainly find it easier to control the Studio scrubber than the V 4.0 one. There are a few annoyances with simple editing and trimming in V 4.0, and it's not so much because I'm used to Studio. I really hate that you can't "un-split" a clip if you change your mind later (and I don't think you should need an add-on product or a special script to do it). I even tried using the trimmer, which actually has some decent features, although at first blush it seems as though it almost does nothing. I thought that it would come in handy, the markers and regions are almost invisible when you put the clip back on the timeline.

I haven't really done anything with batch capture yet, because it seems like it requires too much thought up front to decide what footage I want to keep, in the first place. During the editing process, I often decide to include subtle stuff that probably would have ended up on the cutting room floor if I had to decide what to capture initially.

jetdv wrote on 6/21/2004, 6:01 PM

You CAN undo a split - you just have to use Excalibur OR do it MANUALLY. To do it manually, just delete the clip to the right and then extend the left clip to fill up the hole.

DavidMcKnight wrote on 6/22/2004, 7:23 AM

Oh man...too easy. Not sure about the new V5 feature, but just the "well Duh" moment I had when I read that....that is exactly what I've been doing, except I've been doing it one freakin' clip at a time...thanks for the tip.

(turns around, bumps into the wall)

David

jetdv wrote on 6/22/2004, 7:27 AM

David, you need to take a look at "Extract Good Clips" in Tsunami as well. It lets you mark the areas you want to keep with regions and will then create a series of sub-clips from those regions.

FuTz wrote on 6/22/2004, 1:14 PM

Maybe a workaround...

PREPARATION:

Prefs/General: "show active take info in events" : ON
Prefs/Editing: "automatically overlap multiple selected media when added" : OFF

THE WORKAROUND:

Then, you go into Explorer window, select all clips, right click and import on timeline then choose "add across time"
You now have all your clips on timeline.

Open Media Pool window (first time that'd be usefull for me I must say).

You hit Play and as a clip you don' t want appears, you delete it in Media Pool by right-clicking and choosing "remove from project and delete files" (or hitting "D"). Take names in events are usefull for spotting before deleting.

You go through all your clips and unload your hard drive this way.