Comments

JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/24/2005, 8:22 PM
The 24p conversion in Ultimate S will downconvert your footage to DV. Is that what you want? (I’ll add HDV 24p support in a future update). If you applying motion blur beforehand then it will be part of the 24p render. Ultimate S renders the timeline to 24p as is. Whatever effects you have on the events, track, or bus, will get burned into the render. If you keep the effect on the bus it will be applied twice because the 24p footage will have already been rendered with it on.

~jr
epirb wrote on 12/25/2005, 9:20 AM
Thanks for the input JR and Merry Christmas!!
well Im going to output it to DVD, and want to see the effects of 24p and one of the film looks from Ult S if its what Im looking for so Im doing a 30 min test w various shots cut together.
I also noticed that It letterboxes the clips after render so what I do after the new 24p timeline is up is change my project properties to DV widescreen 24p-then set pan crop to "match output A/R"
then I can do some addition editing with the dv clips in real time playback with all effects and 24p.
Mostly just an experiment.

I assume the best direct route will be to apply the film effects and the render the HDV clips directly to DVdA 24p widescreen mpeg. I should see the same results with better quality right?

I would assume for final output that if i apply
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/25/2005, 9:48 AM
> I also noticed that It letterboxes the clips after render so what I do after the new 24p timeline is up is change my project properties to DV widescreen 24p-then set pan crop to "match output A/R"

I’m not sure why I didn’t have the 24p converter switch the project to widescreen. I will change the behavior to do that in the future since it makes no sense to do the widescreen crop without making the project widescreen. (my bad)

> I assume the best direct route will be to apply the film effects and the render the HDV clips directly to DVdA 24p widescreen mpeg. I should see the same results with better quality right?

Yes, and Vegas 6 does this better than Vegas 5. Remember to make your project 24p from the start. This way any generated media that is added is generated at 24p and any crossfades are also calculated at 24p. It makes things look a lot smoother that working in 60i and converting to 24p at the end.

~jr
Laurence wrote on 12/25/2005, 12:33 PM
This is the one area where you and DSE disagree. DSE says you can just render 24p from a 60i project without converting each clip. I've tried it both ways and couldn't see much difference.
epirb wrote on 12/25/2005, 6:13 PM
"Remember to make your project 24p from the start."

I take it you mean 24p widescreen DV as there is no HDV 24p template right?

Also if I do it at the above template , then try and do a prerender what should I do insert 3-2 pulldown ? To be honest Ive read a ton of posts but I have some sort of mental block on getting straight when to use 3:2 pulldown ,3:2:2:3 pulldown ...etc.
It actually leaves me feeling like Im standing here with my pants at 3:2 pulldown.

When I prerender the clip then gets stretched horizontaly ven more with letterboxing, from a already 16x9 image.

Actually I'm hoping to try and clear much of this up at the HDV seminar in Miami if I have the chance.
JR,.. you able to come down here to sunny Fl for the seminar?
Like to meet you and shake your hand...that is assuming you got that mole removed after your Bday. ; )
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/26/2005, 7:53 AM
> This is the one area where you and DSE disagree.

I don’t believe we are. You may be misinterpreting what DSE is saying. If you use Vegas 5, it is better to pre-render your files to 24p first. If you use Vegas 6, you can just render 60i from the Vegas timeline because it does a better job. This is what has changed between 5 & 6.

The reason I say that working in a 24p project is better than working in a 60i project because if you create a transition in a 60i project and you want it to be 15 frames and then you render to 24p you have lost your 15 frame transition. The transition will still be ½ second long but will use less frames and may not look the same depending on the type of transition. It’s simple mathematics. Working in the same framefrate as your delivery is the only way to get frame accurate edits. This is not an opinion, it is a math fact. Whether that matters to you or not is a different story.

~jr
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/26/2005, 7:53 AM
> I take it you mean 24p widescreen DV as there is no HDV 24p template right?

Yes. You are going to DVD right? So DV Widescreen should be fine. You can also keep the project in HDV and change the framerate of the project to 23.976. I have done this with CF24 footage that was converted to 24p with CineForm Connect HD and it looks outstanding.

> Also if I do it at the above template , then try and do a prerender what should I do insert 3-2 pulldown?

Pulldown (or telecine) is needed to bring 24p footage up to 29.976. If your project is 24p (23.976) you do not want pre-renders to have pulldown as the project framerate is already 23.976. If you project is 29.976 then you want to prerender with pulldown.

> To be honest Ive read a ton of posts but I have some sort of mental block on getting straight when to use 3:2 pulldown ,3:2:2:3 pulldown ...etc.

2-3 pulldown is need to go from 24p (23.976) to 29.976 and is used as a final delivery format. 2-3-3-2 pulldown is used for editing. It makes it easier for the NLE to remove and is only used if you will be using the 24p footage as source material in a 29.976 project. Also if you are working in 24p and delivering in 24p no pulldown is ever used.

> When I prerender the clip then gets stretched horizontaly ven more with letterboxing, from a already 16x9 image.

If you keep your project at DV Widescreen this shouldn’t happen.

> Actually I'm hoping to try and clear much of this up at the HDV seminar in Miami if I have the chance. JR,.. you able to come down here to sunny Fl for the seminar?

As much as a trip to sunny Florida sound good right about now, I will be home working on other projects (sorry). My rule of thumb is, if I want 24p, I set my project up for 24p, I render in 24p and I don’t worry about pulldown at all. I let Vegas handle all of that mess. ;-)

~jr