Uncompressed or DNxHD?

kunal wrote on 5/17/2010, 8:21 PM
I'm looking at 2 options for transferring my 6 minute 1040-60i project from Vegas to FCP (for color correction):

1) Exporting as uncompressed .mov using project size (1440x1080) - this is about 60GB

2) Exporting a mov using the DNxHD codec at 220x - this is about 11GB.

File size is not really an issue since I'll be handing over the file on a hard drive. I'll need to re-import it back into Vegas once CC is done. Is there any reason to choose DNxHD over the uncompressed option?

Thanks.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 5/17/2010, 8:34 PM
Is there any reason to choose DNxHD over the uncompressed option?

Yes. File handling in both applications is the reason. Uncompressed is cumbersome, kind of a "black hole" for CPU assets in either platform. You will be able to preserve aspect and gamma with DNxHD. Be sure to select the right bit depth and color levels for your originals. Since you mentioned 1440x1080 source, I "assume" you are starting with HDV, in which case you will want 8-bit, 4:2:0 RGB output to match the originals. Perrone Ford can give you more details on the conversion once you provide us with your file specifics (I "assume" you meant 1080-60i). MediaInfo is your friend.
kunal wrote on 5/17/2010, 9:10 PM
Yes, it's HD (shot on the FX7).

"Be sure to select the right bit depth and color levels for your originals"

In the DNxHD drop down I chose 1080i-59.94 220 10-bit. I selected the RGB color level and no check for alpha. Does that look right?

Also, is DNxHD a lossless codec? It doesn't seem to be since it's smaller in size than the uncompressed version...trying to see if I can avoid doing any compression where applicable (especially since it's going to be applied while exporting from FCP as well...)
musicvid10 wrote on 5/17/2010, 9:57 PM
Lossless does not = uncompressed. The earliest lossless compression codec was HuffYuv. "Lossless" is based largely on perception and measurements, although the threshold between visually lossless and lossy compression is a bit blurred. That being said, DNxHD is well above that threshold, and you should be just fine at 8-bit 145 Mbs, even on a third generation. Again, matching the render to your source is the goal. Going over and above your HDV source parameters in the render will give no improvement whatsoever. And you "might" even see dithering noise going from 8->10->8 bit. So why burden your (and your FCP editor's) systems over things that make no difference?

In the DNxHD drop down I chose 1080i-59.94 220 10-bit. Does that look right?
No. Maybe the first step in your thinking should be to understand that HDV (Mpeg-2), which you are starting with, is a visually lossy format. You are not going to put back anything that is not already there, any more than you would make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Again, by definition 1080i HDV is 8-bit, 4:2:0 at 25Mbs. According to a quick search on the internet, that is 47 times more compressed than 10-bit 4:2:2, so beyond preserving what is there, what else would you hope to gain? Is your delivery format going to be SDI for broadcast? If not, forget it.

One post I read suggests that you may want to play with the DNxHD "TR" option because it is optimized for rendering horizontally stretched PAR like your 1440x1080 at 1.333.

Since individual camera settings can vary, you will need to post your file details in order to get a completely accurate response to your settings questions. Again, Perrone Ford (I mistakenly gave the wrong name earlier) will be your go-to guy on this one. Oh, did I mention MediaInfo???

Footnote: Oh, I know, someone is going to jump in and claim that applying the color correction to a 10-bit intermediate and then rendering back to 8-bit is somehow "better" than keeping it at 8-bit throughout, the inevitable conversion collaterals notwithstanding. In the spirit of both this thread and that lengthy previous discussion, I hope anyone promoting that particular theory will either resurrect the old thread or start a new one . . .
kunal wrote on 5/18/2010, 7:24 AM
Here's the file settings for my m2t files (as provided by MediaInfo):
25Mbps, 1440x1080 (16:9), at 29.97fps, MPEG video component version 2,(Main (high @1440)) BVOP

Here's what it reports for the .mov generated by DNxHD:
220Mbps, 1920x1080 (4:3) at 29.97fps, VC-3, DNxHD

I'm not sure where it got the 1920x1080 frame setting from, though. In the frame size box, I had custom frame settings of 1440 x 1080 with a PAR of 1.333.
rs170a wrote on 5/18/2010, 7:30 AM
I'm not sure where it got the 1920x1080 frame setting from, though. In the frame size box, I had custom frame settings of 1440 x 1080 with a PAR of 1.333.

1440 X 1.333 = 1919.52 which rounds up to 1920.

Mike
musicvid10 wrote on 5/18/2010, 10:58 AM
Your render frame size should be set to 1920x1080 to preserve the aspect. As gets mentioned a lot in these forums, MOV does not respect PAR.