Understanding Vegas Keyframe Controller -NOT!

jovanni wrote on 6/1/2003, 1:19 PM
Does anyone know a Tutorial to *UNDERSTAND* the vegas 4 keyfram controller? I find it a very complex concept to learn.

All I am trying to do is take 4 tracks of video and composite them in such a manner that they move slowly from left to right with beveled edges and appear to be stacked and staggered one above the other?

I know an in depth understanding of keyframing MUST be known in order to do this seemingly COMPLICATED task (at least to me).

The Vegas manual does very little to EXPLAIN keyframing and concepts. Thanks in advance for you help.

Jovanni

Comments

kameronj wrote on 6/1/2003, 2:06 PM
All sarcasim aside...understanding how Keyframes work in Vegas is about the easiest thing to do.

This seemingly complicated task you are asking about is such a basic operation that is surprises me that someone can't figure it out with one eye closed and both hands tied behind their back.

The Vegas manual on this topic is very clear - and the concept of keyframing is equally easy. But if you need to wrap your brain around explanations and concepts...try this...

The timeline in keyframing is simple.

Move the event/object/edit/whatever to where you want....add a keyframe and then move the event/object/edit/whatever to where you want. The event moves or changes from one keyframe to the other base on where you put it (or where you want it).

Add more keyframes...more stuff happens.

Next time I would suggests holding off on the attitude simply because you can't seem to grasp a simple concept. It's very easy to get - and this forum is very helpful.
craftech wrote on 6/1/2003, 2:35 PM
jovanni,
It's not all that clear as explained in the manual, but condescending attitude aside Kameronj explained it well. Post back if you still have trouble and don't be afraid of put-downs. The forum is here so that we may help one another.
John
kameronj wrote on 6/1/2003, 2:46 PM
Yeah...don't mind me - today my bark is worse than my bite (rough day so far).

I guess one of the reasons it's clear for me (the manual that is) is because I spent a lot of time learning keyframing in Flash...so the concept is the exact same.

Trust me...once you do it once - you have mastered it.

Start with something small....like moving the image from one side of a screen to the other with just two keyframes. Then....as you see how that plays out - do some other stuff (add more frames, etc) and it is as easy as eating.

That is unless you have one of those eating disorders...then it is as easy as puking!

:->
BillyBoy wrote on 6/1/2003, 2:52 PM
Unless I read it wrong, I think we're talking Track Motion, that is assuming you want 4 DIFFERENT videos at once to do stuff in their own space, then merge into a single finished video.
vicmilt wrote on 6/1/2003, 3:19 PM
1. stack the 4 videos on four tracks with the first video on the bottom - Vegas looks from the top down.
2. Stagger the next tracks above track one to where you want the other videos to enter, let's say at 2 seconds (trk2) 3 seconds (trk3) and 4 seconds trk 3.

3. On the left hand side of the screen is an icon for "track motion" in each track.
Click it and a screen will appear with a layout. Resize the track to where you want it. Then drag it offscreen on the left. Add a keyframe (little plus). Now move your cursor to (let's say) 1.5 seconds. Drag the screen indicator to the right. Add a keyframe.

4. Play track one and see if it's too fast or slow. If it looks great, you can do the same action on the other tracks. (hint)copy and paste the keyframes in the other tracks.

5. Drag your cursor over the various moves. Type "Shift B". Vegas will do a quickie RAM render and you can look at what you've done.

6. This is not a perfect instructional, but I'm not in front of Vegas. It sounds Way Worse than it really is - in fact, once you get the hang of it, it's super fast to work with. There are a bunch of other tricks you can do later, keyboard shortcuts and so forth, but this should get you going... if I remembered the screen ok - give it a try.

v.
24Peter wrote on 6/1/2003, 3:53 PM
I'm with jovanni - there must be an easier way to use/set keyframes. Esp because it's hard to preview video while still working in the keyframe window-thingy (I know - alt>F6 brings the preview window to life, but still a pain.)
jovanni wrote on 6/1/2003, 4:57 PM
Kameron,

Its people like *YOU* that give this forum a bad name. Just because you are perhaps a "Vegas Junkie" and KNOW all the concepts and graduated from the 1st grade (I think) you should try being a bit more gentle in your replies.

If that concept is "Hard" for you (even you) to grasp -then your input to this forum is more of a disaster than helpful.

Jovanni
jovanni wrote on 6/1/2003, 4:59 PM
Thanks Craftech,

It appears that Mr Kameron is severe need of a Life and I dare say a personality! I will *IGNORE* his shortcomings and try to concentrate on his response.

Thanks Again,


Jovanni
jovanni wrote on 6/1/2003, 5:01 PM
No comment or response warranted. (In response to KameronJ's "2nd" response) Everyone (else) has been helpful.

Jovanni
jovanni wrote on 6/1/2003, 5:06 PM
Thanks Vicmilt,

I am not exactly a Novice and I am sure that I am making the keyframing concept more difficult than it should be, however you suggestions will be taken and I will give it a try.

It is good to know that there are indeed (some) individuals in this forum that truly ARE helpful.

JV
JJKizak wrote on 6/1/2003, 5:39 PM
Listen up: here is your perfect answer. Go to the sundance site and dounload
all of the veg files. take one of them and put it on the timeline then click the
FX and expand the timeline and you will see all of the things that they did to
accomplish what they wanted to do. It explains everything in one picture. Then
you can try the other functions like copy and paste a string of keyframes. All of the
rehtoric in the book is like trying to understand Klingon.


JJK
kameronj wrote on 6/1/2003, 6:13 PM
Just to clear things up a bit....

I'm not trying to go out of my way to hurt feelings. I find that this forum tends to be pretty good about things - and it just irks me when every now and then some jerk pops off with attitude about things that - quite frankly - are very well explained in the user manual.

So, take from that what you will and save the drama for someone who wants it.

And next time, just take a few minutes and read the manual. Answers most of the basic questions and saves on your typing and trying to get some kind of a rise. This isn't the forum for that (from what I ahve seen).
BillyBoy wrote on 6/1/2003, 6:17 PM
For a quicke example go to SPOT's site.

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/help/kb/kb_files.asp?s=1

Download and play with the one of the video wall demos. You'll need to move the bottom area (the window panes) down to see the 9 tracks. The second example uses the color bars, an image that comes with Vegas. Substitute 9 of your own images to play around so you grasp the concept.

The key frame concept is simple once you do it a few times. A keyframe is really nothing more than a snapshot in time and space. How you want a video frame to look at such and such point in your video. The first keyframe is the starting point, the last keyframe the ending point. Normally you're better off to let Vegas compute the in between frames.
craftech wrote on 6/1/2003, 6:53 PM
From the main page of the forums:

"The Sonic Foundry Discussion Forums are peer support areas where you can share tips and advice with other Sonic Foundry product users."

John
DDogg wrote on 6/1/2003, 10:51 PM
Don't forget the vegas tutorial available somewhere on this site. It helped me get my arms around keyframes and PIP. I do love the power of the keyframe ability (how could you not?), but I do think it takes a little work to be able to really "get it".
although I am not sure I even understand all the power available.

I don't think complicated use of keyframes in Vegas is real intuitive and the user interface seems a bit on the cumbersome side. Hey, it is a fair amount of work and trial and error to get things as you want them to be. Seems like it ought to be a little more user friendly (IMO). Maybe one day. The banging you head against the wall (sometimes) is worth it and it does starting making sense very quickly.
chumash wrote on 6/2/2003, 12:36 AM
The V4 manual does have a pretty complete section on keyframing. However, from my experience with Flash keyframing, I think it's a concept you either get right away, or it takes time for it to sink in. That was the hardest thing for me to learn in Flash. And even with that experience, I still have trouble understanding the way V4 keyframing controls events.

Everyone has their strong and weak points. If I ask a question on this forum, no matter how basic, I wouldn't want to be talked down to. If I truly cannot figure it out on my own, then I am thankful there are a lot of experienced folks here willing to help out. Many times it's as easy as one key phrase or one tip from a response that unlocks the door to understanding the fix to your problem. And more importantly, once you have it figured out, you have it forever, and can possibly help others later.
jovanni wrote on 6/2/2003, 12:52 AM
Thank you Chumash for those expressions of understanding. It appears that there is a "member" of this forum who is LESS interested in helping someone than he is in "Ranking" their question against his intellect. (or lack of).

It is refreshing to interact with those who are willing to help as opposed to those who take up space on this forum.

Jovanni

DDogg wrote on 6/2/2003, 3:19 PM
jovanni, yeah, and if you are on a forum long enough you will lose it (temper) with somebody also and kind of wish you had not and wish people would just let such stuff drop off quietly instead of trying to continue to seek advantage by puffing themselves up in righteous indignation :)

BTW, using CAPS, exclamation points and multiple questions marks (not you) in a post title is one of the things that will set many people off as it identifies you as a noob (no offense meant) so one might then assume you had not done the proper homework.
Grazie wrote on 6/3/2003, 4:22 AM
I also like the Copy 'n Paste of K/Fs - neat trick SoFo! Thanks,

Grazie
PeterWright wrote on 6/3/2003, 4:38 AM
> "there must be an easier way to use/set keyframes. Esp because it's hard to preview video while still working in the keyframe window-thingy "

Ok, I can understand that the keyframes concept/penny may not drop straightaway, but saying it's hard to preview video while working is simply ignoring one of Vegas's greatest strengths.

If you set a loop above the section you're working on in the timeline and start loop playback, you can do just about ANYTHING in Vegas, visual or audio and see/hear the result of your changes as soon as you make them.

The fluency with which they are previewed, framerate wise, will depend on your PC specs, but it's really not hard to set up.
jovanni wrote on 6/10/2003, 3:45 AM
Ok..Many Thanks to the group for your HELP (with the exception of 1) in finally Learning the Keyframing Concept with vegas 4.

The Perennial Penny has "dropped"! Through Trial and Error and doggedly repeated attempts at GRASPING the keyframe concept proved fruitful. Its EZ to just say that

"..oh a keyframe just represents a certain behavior (over time) as a clip proceeds"

However, to the 'Conceptual' element is somewhat difficult to understand -at FIRST for us junior editors out here. Once I gained the concept of keyframing then it truly did become somewhat easy to use. I even copied and pasted keyframes as well as use multiple keyframes in a single clip-just to test my prowess.

Also, another ADDEd benefit of learning the Vegas 4 Keyframer was that when I went over to Uleads Cool 3D Studio Pro (which also used the keyframe concept) I could easily APPLY the newly learned concepts from Vegas to 3D studio quite easily.

Again, Thanks to the forum members here that were so helpful in getting me going on the previously thought -very complicated aspect of keyframing to learn.

Jovanni