Thanks Bob,

with some help from donatello over at DMN, I've learned that the unibrain drivers may only work for fixing reduced thruput and wandering off-line drive syndrome for firewire enclosures after updating to XPP2.

Because my shuttle SB51g has onboard 1394a , i rolled back the unibrain driver to the older 1394 VIA controller driver -- that got my DSR 20 recognized, but alas dropped the framrate on the drive enclosure also attached to that bus to 87fps (2times realtime- according to Scenalyzer disk speed check). I'm hoping the near perfect solution might be to swap out the 1394 VIA controller driver that comes with SP2, with the 1394 VIA controller that came with XPSP1.
I've got word out on the DMN forum for anyone who might have those XPSp1 TI and VIA 1394 controller drivers already zipped up and in sendable form. If anyone might have that-- please send it on and I'll try to find some way to return the favor.

Almost there...again-- but ain't it great?

bestx3,

bt

If I were you I would first eliminate the Unibrain drivers from the system. As far as I am aware they are not usable for anything other than external disk drives, i.e. they are no use for capturing DV video.

Then, when the drivers are back to standard, I would investigate whether the two standard post-SP2 fixes for firewire issues will solve your problems.

The first fix may be necessary to solve the problem of the camera not being recognised. It is not officially supported by Microsoft (still) but it has solved the problem on some systems. You can find it by searching the Sony Knowledge Base for Answer ID number 1133 "Problems capturing from DV devices after installing Windows XP Service Pack 2". (Click on the "Support" button above, choose "Knowledgebase" and search for "1133" in "Search Text".) When SP2 is installed, the MSDV.SYS file is updated to one that has a problem with certain cameras. This fix will replace it with either a later version from Microsoft, or if that does not work the earlier working version from SP1.

The second fix should resolve the throughput problem. Search the Microsoft Knowledgebase for "885222" which should find you the hotfix for an issue entitled "Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2". When SP2 is installed, the througput of 1394b devices is reduced to S100 speeds, i.e. the slowest possible under the standard. Applying this fix restores use of the S200, S400 and S800 speeds.

One or other or both of these fixes should solve the problems you are reporting.

Mark

thanks much for those fixes and thorough detail mark-- I''ll let you know how it goes.

bestx3,
bt

Ouch-- here's how it went.

<If I were you I would first eliminate the Unibrain drivers from the system. >

uninstalled the unibrain drivers (remember I'm running on a shuttle SB51g with onboard 1394a and a PCI card w 1394b) which put me back to IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers of
Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEE 1394 Host controller, for the 1394b PCI card
and
VIA OHCI Complaint IEE 1394 Host Controller, for the onboard 1394a ports

<Then, when the drivers are back to standard, I would investigate whether the two standard post-SP2 fixes for firewire issues will solve your problems...
<The first fix may be necessary to solve the problem of the camera not being recognised. >

Went to Support>KnowledgeBase>1133> Problems capturing ...
which, FYI SONY, when you choose the link designated <this patch from Microsoft> now gets you a hot-fix for PAL cameras incorrectly detected as NTSC... woops. Probably not what I want, right?

So I start searching "Problems capturing from DV devices after installing Windows XP Service Pack 2" on MS's knowledge base. adn find this instead--

Update for Windows XP (KB904412)
Install this update to address several possible issues associated with connecting a Serial Bus Protocol 2 (SBP-2) device, such as an IEEE 1394 device, to a Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer. Its release date is 10/7/2005, and its popularity is #365,
I check the symptoms bulletpoints--
SYMPTOMS
When you connect a Serial Bus Protocol 2 (SBP-2) device, such as an IEEE 1394 device, to a Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)-based computer, you may experience the following symptoms: • The SBP-2 device stops responding (hangs) or does not work.
• The SBP-2 device is not displayed in Device Manager.
• IEEE 1394 devices that are already connected to the computer stop responding or do not work.
Yep-- that's me! so I think -- this is the ticket! and it seems new, so...
I install it.

Result: Yes my 1394 devices seem to be connecting (staying on line better than they were) and digital device (my camcorder/deck) is still detected BUT--
throughput (according to Scenalyzer 4) for drive connected 1394a thru onboard VIA 1394 controller is diminished by approx 10% AND any 1394a drive daisy-chained to that drive gets sightly less than 1/2 that throughput , AND even

more disturbingly, new drive connected via 1394b to PCI slot driven 1394bSIIG card is again being limited to the same throughput as the 1394a drives.

Hmm. ON TO FIX 2, which will hopefully boost all those throughputs...

<The second fix should resolve the throughput problem. Search the Microsoft Knowledgebase for "885222" which should find you the hotfix for an issue entitled "Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2". When SP2 is installed, the througput of 1394b devices is reduced to S100 speeds, i.e. the slowest possible under the standard. Applying this fix restores use of the S200, S400 and S800 speeds.>

Got it! Install it--AND -- Oddly enough it says it can't install what's already there... Hmm. I notice it's publish date is 3/30/2005 and wonder if i tmight have been included in the (KB904412) hot-fix
Being an idiot-- I just try reinstalling it and bingo-- this time it allows itself to be installed.

Result:
1394a and 1394b throughputs remain unchanged.

So I go to VASST site because I remember reading something about throughput also being affected by what protocol your IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers are using-- DMA(good) vs PIO(bad), and what I discover is that my Primary and Secondary IDE channels are both frozen in PIO mode(bad?), even tho 'DMA if available' designations and, 'optimize for performance', and 'autodetect DMA' have been enabled in Bios....

So I decide to try to uninstall my Primary IDE channel-- crash, restore last best settings. this time I choose update driver for Primary IDE channel (oddly enough, it begins to update-- I'm thinking maybe the (KB904412) hot-fix just doesn't toggle off the PIO vs DMA distinction in the Primary IDE channel and so-- the throughput remains compromised just because it got 'fixed' but didn't update... (are you still followin this?) Upon reboot, I go back to device manager, to check IDE ATA./ATAPI controller to see whether Primary IDE Channel is still toggled to PIO or DMA.. What I find is, in the update to that driver?, this designation, once gotten to by right clicking on properties and checking the tab designated "&*%" I don't even know anymore because...its gone!

Long and short--
Sony Knowledge Base link to FIX 1 seems to need 'fixing', AND I think I'll be exploring toggling on the unibrain drivers again, at least for the PCI based 1394b card to reclaim that 350 fps throughput it was getting vs the nasty-assed 198fps its getting now...

and -- the two standard fixes, again, don't seem to be working for me-- and here's the hard part to say-- across three separate machines.

It's going to be a very long day tomorrow--- hmm Halloween-- and I thank everyone so much for their input so far,

But I'm also slightly amazed that, given that this is haunting me now across 3 machines-- a 3G HT shuttle sb51g, a 4200+dualcore AMD, and a 3GHT fujitsu laptop (all running XPSP2) and now all suddenly suffering the identical problem of drifting 1394a (and now 1394b) drives running at half-throughput -- so its suddenly not even possible to reliably capture SD, just when I was considering ramping up to take on HDV??? Trick or treat?

<One or other or both of these fixes should solve the problems you are reporting.>

Didn't work for me.

Or maybe there's something I'm still not getting...

Back to the drawing board for me and-- Happy Halloween!

Went to Support>KnowledgeBase>1133> Problems capturing ...
which, FYI SONY, when you choose the link designated <this patch from Microsoft> now gets you a hot-fix for PAL cameras incorrectly detected as NTSC... woops. Probably not what I want, right?

*** Wrong. That is the first part of the fix I was suggesting, which updates MSDV.SYS to a later version which detects some cameras that the SP2 version does not. If that does not work then it is sometimes necessary to revert to an evn earlier version of MSDV.SYS, as described in the second part of the fix.

So I start searching "Problems capturing from DV devices after installing Windows XP Service Pack 2" on MS's knowledge base. adn find this instead-- Update for Windows XP (KB904412)
Install this update to address several possible issues associated with connecting a Serial Bus Protocol 2 (SBP-2) device, such as an IEEE 1394 device, to a Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer. Its release date is 10/7/2005, and its popularity is #365,
I check the symptoms bulletpoints--
SYMPTOMS
When you connect a Serial Bus Protocol 2 (SBP-2) device, such as an IEEE 1394 device, to a Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)-based computer, you may experience the following symptoms: • The SBP-2 device stops responding (hangs) or does not work.
• The SBP-2 device is not displayed in Device Manager.
• IEEE 1394 devices that are already connected to the computer stop responding or do not work.
Yep-- that's me! so I think -- this is the ticket! and it seems new, so...
I install it.

*** No, that is a completely different fix for a completely different issue. It has nothing to do with DV cameras or Firewire hard disks - it deals only with problems with SBP-2 devices and you don't have any, or at least you haven't mentioned any as far as I can tell. (SBP-2 is a way of encapsulating SCSI commands over a Firewire bus).

Hmm. ON TO FIX 2, which will hopefully boost all those throughputs...
<The second fix should resolve the throughput problem. Search the Microsoft Knowledgebase for "885222" which should find you the hotfix for an issue entitled "Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2". When SP2 is installed, the througput of 1394b devices is reduced to S100 speeds, i.e. the slowest possible under the standard. Applying this fix restores use of the S200, S400 and S800 speeds.>
Got it! Install it--AND -- Oddly enough it says it can't install what's already there... Hmm. I notice it's publish date is 3/30/2005 and wonder if i tmight have been included in the (KB904412) hot-fix
Being an idiot-- I just try reinstalling it and bingo-- this time it allows itself to be installed.
Result: 1394a and 1394b throughputs remain unchanged.

*** Hmm, that's a shame. I have found that this fix has worked on a couple of machines that are exhibiting the symptoms described.

So I go to VASST site because I remember reading something about throughput also being affected by what protocol your IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers are using-- DMA(good) vs PIO(bad), and what I discover is that my Primary and Secondary IDE channels are both frozen in PIO mode(bad?), even tho 'DMA if available' designations and, 'optimize for performance', and 'autodetect DMA' have been enabled in Bios....

*** Well this is definitely bad, but it should not be affecting the throughput of your firewire devices. It will however, very adversely affect the performance of your IDE drives, so you should definitely fix this issue too.

So I decide to try to uninstall my Primary IDE channel-- crash, restore last best settings. this time I choose update driver for Primary IDE channel (oddly enough, it begins to update-- I'm thinking maybe the (KB904412) hot-fix just doesn't toggle off the PIO vs DMA distinction in the Primary IDE channel and so-- the throughput remains compromised just because it got 'fixed' but didn't update... (are you still followin this?) Upon reboot, I go back to device manager, to check IDE ATA./ATAPI controller to see whether Primary IDE Channel is still toggled to PIO or DMA.. What I find is, in the update to that driver?, this designation, once gotten to by right clicking on properties and checking the tab designated "&*%" I don't even know anymore because...its gone!

*** Hmm, I don't know if I can properly follow what you are saying there, but whatever it is it certainly doesn't sound right.

Long and short--
Sony Knowledge Base link to FIX 1 seems to need 'fixing',

*** No, the link is fine. I think you have misunderstood what I and the knowledge base article are saying.

<One or other or both of these fixes should solve the problems you are reporting.>
Didn't work for me.

*** Sorry about that - as I said, this has worked for me on a couple of machines with apparently similar symptoms. Presumably your problem is caused by some different underlying cause despite the similar symptoms. Perhaps someone else has some suggestions that may help.

Mark

Sorry, I don't have the time to go into a full explanation at this time but you can not use the Unibrain drivers for video capture. Download their user guide and depending on which version of the driver you install depends on how you can switch back and forth. Microsoft does not support 1394b (firewire 800) and if your drives are 1394b then to get the b speed you need the proper drivers.

Unibrain's most current driver version has a systray icon that you can use to individual switch each 1394 port. I have two of my ports on 1394b and the other on 1394a. the b's are using the unibrain drivers and the a is using the Microsoft driver. With the MS driver my cam is recognized properly. It's all laid out in Unibrain's user guide.

MarkWWW--
Thanks so much for your careful reading-- and can-do attitude. It's inspiring. I think I'm following all your clarifications- and thanks to you, have a few new avenues of pursuit.

bestx3,

bt

thanks m--

I think I'm running the most recent unibrain drivers-- and yes, I see that they seem to only support 1394b cameras (if you buy an aditional i-fire application.

I'm not getting the toggle icon you mention tho-- hmmmm

I du get a ubCore menu in AllPrograms that lists FireCommander, Fire-i, FireShare, ubCore Auth (which I had to put som reg stuff in to activate), Unibrain website, and Uninstall