Using a DVD Recorder as an MPG Encoder. Anyone?

jsteehl wrote on 1/13/2005, 8:07 PM
Well I though about the idea after seeing the DVDRecorder recorded DVD-r from a friend. He ran his dvd cam firewire into the DVD-Recorder and also S-Video from a vcr.

I was blow away! Just as good as any encoding I've done and it was recorded in realtime! Obviously the menus are very basic at best. Now I still intend on editing and authoring the traditional way for some projects but rendering mpg is a slow process!

I did some investigating and came up with the following.

- You can get a unit (Sony, Pioneer, Panny) that has DV in/out and a HD (80G) for about $500-$600.

- You can set the bit rate via quality settings. In some cases VBR but no major options.

- You can record directly to DVD-R or DVD-RW (or DVD+R/W in some units) or directoy to the HD for simple edits (cuts, deletes) and then to DVD.

- I would record to DVD-RW, rip back to pc, demux to mpv and mpa, do simple editing (cut out content) with Womble MPG-VCR with no re-encoding, then re-author with customized menu and chapters, burn.

- I would basically use this workflow to author DVD's for my clients who want the bulk VHS,VHS-C,Hi-8,8mm,DV to DVD. Some with basic menus and chpts some with more fancy. Some times I get a whole box full! Ya Ya I know, who wants to pick that work but once you have the workflow down it really is just pretty easy. I tell people to go out and by one of these and they say either no or cool, but they still want me to do it.

- From what I can find you can't go from the PC directly into the DVD Recorder (anyone?). But I was thinking I could even go PC to print to DV to DVDRecorder. No loss.

- The pro is that I can encode the video without having to go to avi and then mpg. The quality it really good (seriously). I'm not tying up my editing rig so I can do the fun stuff.

- Just to check point, is there a good MPG encoder card anywhere near $500 on the market that is really good (I've seen some real crap out there).

Have not settled on a make/model yet or even if I will go this route. Anyone else doing this? Crazy? :)

-Jason

Comments

Chanimal wrote on 1/13/2005, 8:21 PM
Yep. I have two Panasonic DVR-e75V units. They don't have a HD but a DVD burner and VHS (SuperDrive). Instructions are a bear, but they won editor's choice for encoding quality.

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hugoharris wrote on 1/13/2005, 9:10 PM
I have one of the newer Panasonic HD-DVR models (the Panasonic DMR-E95HS), and the encoding quality at the best setting is clearly worse than Vegas. The artifacting is most obvious at the fringes of fast moving objects, exactly where you'd expect.

Kevin
tadpole wrote on 1/13/2005, 9:17 PM
Well listen up.. i had sorta of the same idea floating around for a while...

Bulk transfers to DVDs would just KILL me waiting for hours of mpegs to render.. i wanted/needed REALTIME.. my p3 800mghz machine would encode an hour of video in about 7 hours..

So i thought about DVD- recorder option, or breakout box converter... or a new system with realtime encoding card...

Well.. i opted for the new system (which was serious coin but upgraded was needed) .. went through alienware - didn't wanna muck with config problems & at the time , they were only ones that offered Matrox RXt100 installed & 400 gig HDs... (btw - yes, some "pro video" computer oems offer this card but the prices are RIDICULOUS.. even compared to Alienware)

So i got my new system - which included the $1000 matrox realtime mpeg card.. but then.. HOLY SCHNIKES!!! my new rig P4 3.4 gig machine would krap out a 1.5 hour mpeg in like 45 minutes via rendering right from vegas timeline!!! - which made me pondering my choice for matrox card...

(which btw.. would be pretty darn SWEET if the other realtime fx worked with vegas - really BLOWS having to drag them over to premiere - render - then import back to vegas - as Adobe premiere is a total piece of junk)

Not sure your system.. but thinking an system upgrade might pan out better in the long run ... plus.. heard a few things about those DVD recorders not always being comptable with other players.. i dunno.. they probably fixed that by now...

but anways.. FASTER than realtime with software and nice system - i didn't think that was possible.





Laurence wrote on 1/13/2005, 10:43 PM
I've been using Win DVD Creator with a Canopus ADVC-100 to do real time capture/mpeg2 encoding. It works really well, but their editing software is really slow. Instead I trim the clips with MpegVCR from womble.com, separate the AC-3 audio from the video with MpegVCR's DMUX tool, then burn the DVD with DVD Architect. It gives me a nicely trimmed DVD with chapter markers set up exactly where I want them without any rendering time to speak of. WinDVD Creator will capture Mpeg 2 video with either AC-3 or MP3 audio by the way.
farss wrote on 1/14/2005, 1:07 AM
I guess initially the speed thing sounds attractive however a lot of encoding can be done while you sleep etc, that's how we can churn out so much product per day. Capturing is more time consumming, someone has to be awake to change the tapes. And as has rightly been pointed out a faster PC gives you faster encoding, with a STB you're limied to real time.
Another thing is, now that we're entering the age of HDV you'll get better results going form HDV to mpeg-2 than downsampling to DV25 and encoding that to mpeg-2 whether in software or using the encoder in a STB.
Bob.
singapuree wrote on 1/14/2005, 1:10 AM
Have you considered the Happauge WinTV PVR 250 or the USB 2 solution? I saw some sample encodes and was pretty impressed. Clearly an offline solution would offer the best encodes but as you've experienced this can be a slow and painful process unless you have a P4 3Ghz or above or the AMD equivalent. As for quality TMPEGENC and CCE are superb offline software solutions. But for general purposes and speed the quality of the Happauge solutions is more than good enough.
Go to this website http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/htpc.html and there is a link on the left hand side for sample files.
N.B. I'm in no way affilliated to Happauge or the above site, I'm in the same shoes as you. Debating whether I should buy a faster machine or a hardware encoder. Too many changes are happening in the PC field at the moment with PCI-e and dual core processors from AMD how long does one wait. I'm actually interested in the AMD FX55 but it's too expensive at the moment. Might settle for a board designed to accomodate this chip but put a cheaper chip until the FX55 comes down in price. Sorry for digressing.
logiquem wrote on 1/14/2005, 9:02 AM
I have a Philips DVD recorder i have used a lot since 2 years. Unquestionnably, this is the fastest method to transfer to DVD. I have archiv ed hours and hours off non critical material this way.

I only wish for an HD unit so i would have more flexibility *and* an easy way to reauthor the menus on PC, wich i have yet to find.

Otherwise, quality is correct for 1 hour recording (not on par with Vegas mpeg encoding, for shure) and can be acceptable for 2 hours recording of educationnal purpose material.

BTW, i often use the DV input for NTSC Vegas preview when my camcorder is used elsewhere. Surprisingly, it works! ;-)
baysidebas wrote on 1/14/2005, 11:30 AM
Throw another hat into the ring: I successfully use my ReplayTV DVR (5XXX series with ethernet networking capability) to create mpeg files of composite video which I then transfer to my PC via DVArchive (an application that makes the PC a virtual ReplayTV unit). These mpeg files are then available on the PC for any processing I may wish to perform on them. To edit them, the quick and dirty way, with no FX, I use VideoReDo, which is frame accurate and doesn't re-encode any non-tampered with GOPs. I can then burn DVDs with, so far, no issues whatever.
Couldbe wrote on 1/14/2005, 11:45 AM
I've been using a JVC DR-M10 DVD recorder that allows me burn a DVD using print to tape via firewire right from the Vegas 5 tilmeline sees the recorder just as if it were a camera.

As a poster above notes the menu are nothing special, but the quality is great even at well over 2 hours.. I have mine set up so that when you insert the DVD in another player it starts to play without going to a menu screen first.

It records to and plays dvd-ram and r/w as well as -r.

I've also found that if I make a copy of the DVD on my PC first it insures compatibility on other DVD players This can be a draw back of discs created on a DVD recorder

B&H has them for around 250.00