>When I tried MXF as an intermediate I didn't like what it did to the whites.

Where you trying to use MXF as an intermediate with Canon DSLR footage? If so it helps to insert a cRGB to sRGB color correction filter as you do the conversion. That should fix the problem with your whites (I still like Cineform too though).

Are you guys using the Neo?

Might try that out, it's only $149 as far as I remember.

/Ulf

I'm using Neo HD so as to be able to use First Light for color correction. The reason being that First Light is so much less overhead on my Core2Duo laptop.

Good tip, Laurence. I'll keep it in mind.
As far as Cineform, I'm still using the one that packed with 8.0c 32-bit.

NEO Scene is $129 directly from Cineform or $99 from www.videoguys.com.

Thanks John.

/Ulf

Not that there is anything wrong with using MXF as an intermediate. As you've noticed it really works quite well.

On Canon footage I see distinct advantages in using Neo Scene in that it slows down the footage to 29.97 (from 30p) and rescales the video from cRGB to sRGB (at ten bits accuracy). For many AVCHD camcorders you can really use either format quite well. MXF is smaller but still very high quality. Cineform holds up (IMHO) a little better over successive renders. Both formats have uncompressed audio and smart-render well.

I really like First Light for color correction but you have to spend a lot more money on Neo HD to get that.

Doesn't the latest Canon firmware fix the 30.000fps problem?

I'm curious as to what the MXF transcode did the whites.
I transcoded some Artbeats footage to MXF422 recently and nothing seemed to get munged in the process. The Red originated footage was cRGB and it remained exactly the same.
That can be an issue I guess as the footage from the EX that I was cutting it into is neither cRGB or sRGB.

Bob.

Any damaged whites is probably due to a cRGB sRGB mixup. It's pretty easy to truncate accidentally loose all your values above 235 if you do this.

With the Canon firmware update the 30fps is supposed to be fixed. This doesn't help me much with my Canon SX-1 IS though which may never have such a firmware update.

I use MXF all the time as intermediate and as proxies.
I see folks here thinnk it is not good enough. Maybe my eyes need an update, until then - it is MXF for me

Ingvar

The clips I tried yesterday look brilliant for me too :-)

I will certanly try it again

/Ulf

could you guys please post your Sony MXF settings?

JHendrix - I also use the Sony mxf files and I don't change anything in the settings, I just go with the defaults when I render to it. And most all of the time I use them for final mpeg2 rendering for my dvd's since the quality seems to be quite high.

Good luck with this.
Steve

I don't change anything in the settings, I just go with the defaults when I render to it.

Me too.

/Ulf

Let's say you wanted to convert Canon .mov clips to .mxf for editing. You would probably want to slow the footage down 1% to 29.97 and adjust the color from cRGB to sRGB. Anyone know how to set up a batch file that does this?

Laurence, can you define the terms ”cRGB” and ”sRGB”?

Jøran

I probably don't have the terms right but to me cRGB is computer RGB. This is what most photos use and also the video in the Canon still cameras when they shoot video. The darkest black has RGB values of red = 0, green = 0 and blue =0. The brightest whites have RGB values of red = 255, green = 255 and blue = 255. For still pictures this makes sense because you are only shooting one frame, you can easily adjust that frame as you're taking the picture to not go over either extreme, and that gives you the maximum number of shades of color between the lights and darks.

For video it's different however. You set your shot, but it might get a little brighter or darker than your original frame and you need extra latitude. That's why it is accepted practice to use the narrower range of sRGB colors. The darkest black has values or red = 16, green = 16 and blue = 16. The whitest white goes up to values of red = 235, green = 235 and blue = 235. That way when you line up your shot, if you go a little over at either end, you have little room to rescue the shot. You can bring down and rescue an overblown white or bring up detail that was lost in the shadows in the editor.

Since the Canon cameras are mainly still cameras, when they shoot video they are still shooting in the cRGB range just like they do when they are shooting stills. This is another reason why you have to be so careful when you shoot with one. Overblown highlights can't be rescued. Neither can detail lost in the shadows.

To further complicate things, Vegas edits video in the cRGB range. Playback on Vimeo or Youtube is somewhere between the two ranges. Highlights of 255 tend to look blown out but blacks of 16 really aren't dark enough.

If you compare the look of sRGB and cRGB video side by side on a computer monitor, most people prefer the look of cRGB. The blacks look really dark and the colors look really vibrant. sRGB looks washed out in comparison. This all changes however when you play that same video back on an SD or HD TV. On a TV, the cRGB will look oversaturated. There is no detail in the shadows and lots of highlights are blown out.

What does all this mean? Well what everyone should be doing is converting the cRGB of the Canons to the same sRGB range that video people have been using all these years. Yeah the people coming from a photography background and just venturing into video are going to think it looks washed out, but that is an illusion. They should learn to use the video color range because it is optimized for video. Anyone working with video from a DSLR should be adjusting the color range from cRGB to the proper sRGB. It probably wouldn't hurt to underexpose your video as you shoot it as well. With a DSLR, if you have a blown highlight, you can't rescue it. Your range is less than what you think.

That's one of the reasons I like Cineform so much. It conforms the Canon footage to the regular HD video standards that us video guys are used to. 30p cRGB footage is hard to work with. 29.97 sRGB is what we really need. Cineform does this automatically for you.

As far as using .mxf instead of Cineform, the color issue isn't that hard. All you need to do is put a cRGB to sRGB color correction filter on the master video bus before you run the batch conversion.

What I don't know is how to batch slow down all the frame-rates that 1% from 30fps to 29.97.

> how to batch slow down all the frame-rates that 1% from 30fps to 29.97.

Only the 5D and T1i shoot at 30 instead of 29.97.

The 7D, T2i, and soon to be 5D firmware update are 29.97.