Jasonatl, this has been covered extensively in the forum over the years, I suggest you get down to some really difficult searches. There are very very few people that bother with this process, let alone use it.

What is suggested is that VegasPro NLE was never designed to interact well with other NLE's (ah, witness timecode integrity?), and as Gary so appropriately suggests the XML feature was an attempt to expose programming of Vegas in an internal loop.

Now, that is not to say you could NOT invent problematic workflows, and some on the forum have done just that. Usually to get out of a bind I believe, and not to be inventing a process that pays dividends.

VideoITguy and Gary -

Thank you for your help and insights.

Perhaps I'm missing your points, but what I'm trying to do doesn't/shouldn't involve scripts or something that people have been trying for years. This is an actual feature that was newly added in Vegas Pro 12. There is a specific menu item in Vegas Pro 12 to export to Resolve/Final Cut Pro (and another separate one for Final Cut Pro X).

Vegas Pro 12 also has an "export to Premiere Pro" function that appears to work fairly well (at least on the test project I was using).

So, I'm not trying to invent a problematic workflow. I'm trying to do what I understand to be quite common in the industry: cut in my NLE and color correct/grade in Resolve. A round trip workflow. Vegas Pro 12 had the promise of accommodating this workflow. I'm trying to determine if this is just a buggy implementation of this by SCS, or by Resolve, or if I'm using it incorrectly.

JasonATL, my understanding is that the export will create an XML file which can be read by Resolve/Final Cut. It however references the files on the timeline and does guarantee that the files are readable by Resolve. The files used must be in a format acceptable to Resolve.

WIllem.

JasonAtl, the is a user based forum, and is such is a practical matter of concern and IS NOT a marketing weapon of SCS. Yes indeed, SCS promoted the inter NLE reference in the last Vegas12 roll-out, but as such the underpinnings of that feature set have been there for many years.

If you are pleased with the Version 12 and its connect to Premiere, then more power to you. Not withstanding our earlier comments, I would do the research as suggested of forum topics here and in other forums.

Thanks, again. I've located a couple of threads regarding Gary's referenced scripts. I'll look into those. As Gary suggests, it appears to be an issue with the file paths or file names.

No, I'm not at all satisfied with the Premiere Pro workflow, nor am I satisfied with how Vegas does not seem to be doing something that it appears that Final Cut and PPro can do. My point was that it seemed odd to me that the PPro export gave enough information to resolve the referenced files, but the export to Resolve does not.

Something you might try.

Give the files TAPE name. Click on properties of file in the media pool and assign a tape name, unique for each clip.

See if this helps.'

Dave T2

VideoITguy,

This is a legitimate concern. On the EXPORT menu are specific export options for Pro Tools, Premiere/After Affects, Final Cut Pro 7/Davinci Resolve and Final Cut ProX. This is not part of the scripting options. So it needs to be brought to SCS attention if this is not working correctly.

Dave T2

We have been in touch with Paddy a number of times on this issue. Most recently he was very helpful in outlining some info for FCP processing that is not documented anywhere in SCS materials that I can find. As you might note from the latest build release notes, there was some fundamental correction on the FCP front. There has been a real lack of communication on these issues in general.

That said, I think Paddy has been the most helpful source of anyone at SCS, and I have not seen anything from the SCS development team or the help desk that changes that view.

DaveT2 - Thanks for the help. I tried setting the Tape name in the media properties, but to no avail.

I did go back to the Blackmagicdesign forums and search for the exact error that I was getting. There was "timecode extents" didn't match error. Searching the BMD forums reveals that this is a very common frustration with many. One thread suggested that the timecode might not be stored in certain media files "correctly" (I say correctly in quotes to simply indicate that "correct" means how Resolve wants it). This led me to try using a different intermediate proxy. I had been using a DNxHD .mov proxy. So, I switched to a Sony MXF proxy. Viola! It SEEMS to now work as intended now. Specifically, using the Sony MXF proxy, the XML from Vegas now seems to import fine into Resolve and link with the original raw .dng files.

Again, there is still a mystery as to why the DNxHD files in PPro were fine, but then problematic in Vegas Pro. But, subject to a bit more testing, I think that the workflow using Sony MXF proxies might work fine for what I'm trying to accomplish.

After more testing, I'll report back and provide clearer workflow, specifically for the Blackmagicdesign Cinema Camera files.

Again, thank you to all who chimed in.

So the OP's quest had more to do with pass-thru timecode, than format of the XML export or the links to the Vegas timeline itself.

Interesting , and would like to hear how the SONY MXF container (really MPEG2 video) render holds timecode metadata???

I would not expect .mov containers to hold timecode across NLE's although I believe that in a closed loop it might. Don't know about the DNXHD codec however.

JasonAtl, I hope you will be able to get back here, and really explain your workflow, your sources, and your outcomes.

JasonATL,

What type of source files are you working with? Can you import those same source files directly into Resolve? I would say that Dave may be on the right track regarding file paths. Can you provide any more detail on that front? Are the files stored on a networked drive? Also, what does the export log contain? It should be pretty comprehensive, indicating if anything went wrong on export, and where.

FYI, the Project Interchange features of Vegas Pro 12 are indeed new, and much, much more comprehensive than the import/export capabilities of previous versions.

Best,
Paddy
SCS

Edit: I'm just now reading your most recent update, Jason. Let us know how it goes.

So the OP's quest had more to do with pass-thru timecode, than format of the XML export or the links to the Vegas timeline itself.
Maybe. Again, PPro (and, according to others, Final Cut Pro) are able to handle the pass-thru timecode and output an XML file for Resolve that it can understand. So, I'm not prepared to say that this has nothing to do with the Vegas timeline itself. I'm merely trying to figure out how to make Vegas and Resolve work together as they should. But, some progress is being made, I think.

Interesting , and would like to hear how the SONY MXF container (really MPEG2 video) render holds timecode metadata???

Actually, the Sony MXF container from Resolve that I'm using renders using the MPEG-4 codec - though I'm not sure that this has anything to do with it.

I would not expect .mov containers to hold timecode across NLE's although I believe that in a closed loop it might. Don't know about the DNXHD codec however.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I understand your point here. Do you mean to say that Vegas should not be expected to recognize the timecode in a .mov container that was rendered from Resolve. That seems quite odd, as then we would not expect it to recognize the timecode in the .mov files from our cameras. Note that Vegas is not actually re-rendering the .mov files that it is supposed to be referencing in the XML file. Rather, it should just be pointing to them. Again, PPro and Final Cut Pro can do this in a way that Resolve can understand. Shouldn't Vegas?

I'll continue to experiment and post now that it seems that we're getting somewhere with this.

I realize you don't have time to do a 64 questions but I still believe your proposing questions and few directions on what you are attempting to do. Did you see that we brought in the Forum Admin for you? He has good questions of your workflow.

Wonder, did you say you rendered a file in Sony MXF format inside of Vegas? Or did you get the MXF from other source? Note MXF is a container, just like .mov and .avi -it can hold multiple codecs, although a codec tied-in with a specific write can be unique combo. I thought that MXF within a Vegas written file was an MPEG-2 , but are you analyzing it with some other decoder, it might read the codec as something else =just because the decoder was written to translate it that way. In other words, a descriptor of the codec may not be always correctly interpreting.

Yes, I appreciate the ForumAdmin's participation here and I will be getting him answers. I didn't realize that I had you to thank for the ForumAdmin's presence here. Thank you.

I apologize, I thought I had been quite clear in this thread and the one that I linked to in my original post as to what I'm trying to do.

To try to be clearer: I am trying to create proxies of raw (.dng) files in Resolve. This means that I am rendering out my raw files to .mov (or .mxf) files in Resolve.

I want to edit these proxies in Vegas. The reason that I must create this workflow that you seem to think I'm set on making more complicated than necessary is because Vegas does not handle raw (.dng) files natively. Once the timeline is created edited in Vegas, I want to export the timeline (the XML file) from Vegas so that I can use Resolve to color grade.

To get the most out of the color grade, I want to grade the raw (.dng) files (not files rendered from Vegas - in fact, I'm not rendering anything from Vegas at this point). Resolve has a feature that will automatically relink from the timeline (in theory) to the raw files, rather than using the proxies. This is where the process is failing. This works in Premiere Pro and, according to others, Final Cut Pro.

Once the color grade is completed, the final files are rendered out in Resolve again. Assuming that the full shots were color graded, then the original proxy files can just be replaced and they should show up on the Vegas timeline with the color grades (there is an alternative possibility here in which the timeline can be exported from Resolve back to Vegas with totally new graded clips rendered out - but, this unrelated to the problem here).

If you are familiar with a Resolve workflow, then this shouldn't sound so round-about. Or, perhaps you can correct me in how I'm making it more round-about than necessary. Again, I'd be delighted if Vegas supported .dng raw files from the Blackmagicdesign Cinema Camera. I put in a feature request months ago saying just that. In the meantime, I'm struggling to get Resolve and Vegas to work together as it seems that I might be the first person trying to do this (but for Vegas sake, hopefully not the last).

JasonAtl, I appreciate very much that you now have explained your process flow, and as you suggest, this is a very well understood application (at least in theory). There has been a lot of discussion among editors about how to deal with BlackMagic's products..I for one am quite familar with the company. I for one ,am also familiar with some of the roadblocks that they throw at the creative community which I think that (they do not always agree) they should support.

Weigh-in, please when you really push the process, that is, trying to seek frame accuracy, utlimate length of project is attempted, etc. Would appreciate the feedback , thanks.

Paddy,

Thank you for your participation and effort on helping with this. I'll try to answer your questions as best as possible. I restarted my workflow and projects from scratch in Vegas Pro 12 and Resolve in an attempt to "hold all else constant".

What type of source files are you working with?
The original source files are .dng image sequences from the Blackmagicdesign Cinema Camera (BMCC). The BMCC stores a single shot as individual frames in a folder with a unique name (e.g., BMCC_2013-03-12-1110_C0000). I shot these frames at a rate of 23.976 fps, so I set this frame rate in both my Resolve project and VP12 project.

As described in my post above, I render from Resolve to a proxy/intermediate file. I can choose various containers and codecs in Resolve. My original problem was with the .mov container using DNxHD 175Mbps. As stated in the post above in which I was able to read XML file (exported from VP12) in Resolve, I used a .mxf container with MPEG4 255Mbps codec.

Can you import those same source files directly into Resolve?
Yes. These .mov and .mxf files are readable in both VP12 and Resolve. No issues in importing them into VP12 or Resolve.

I would say that Dave may be on the right track regarding file paths. Can you provide any more detail on that front? Are the files stored on a networked drive? All files are stored locally on an SSD drive that I use as a work drive for temporary files. So, no, they are not on a networked drive.

Also, what does the export log contain?
Here's the export log from the Vegas project that use the .mov files:
Deinterlace method ignored.
Motion blur type ignored.
Codec for first video event in sequence not found.
Composite mode for track 1 ignored.
Loop for event at 00:00:00:00 in track 1 ignored.
Loop for event at 00:00:10:01 in track 1 ignored.
Loop for event at 00:00:24:19 in track 1 ignored.

Here's the export log from the Vegas Project using the .mxf files:
Deinterlace method ignored.
Motion blur type ignored.
Codec for first video event in sequence not found.
Composite mode for track 1 ignored.
Loop for event at 00:00:00:00 in track 1 ignored.
Loop for event at 00:00:11:00 in track 1 ignored.
Loop for event at 00:00:26:21 in track 1 ignored.

By the way, I purposefully used two separate VP12 projects and tried to make very similar simple edits on each of the same clips, with the only difference being one used MXF and one used MOV - and my cuts weren't exactly the same. The projects contain two shots, with three clips in the VP12 timeline in which I cut from shot A to shot B and back to shot A, with 1 second simple fade transitions.

It should be pretty comprehensive, indicating if anything went wrong on export, and where.
I double-checked. I've copied and pasted the correct log files above. They look the same to me (other than the timing of the cuts).

FYI, the Project Interchange features of Vegas Pro 12 are indeed new, and much, much more comprehensive than the import/export capabilities of previous versions.
Thanks. This is actually the reason that I upgraded from VP11 to VP12. I actually was content with VP11. But, it was this key feature and knowing that I wanted to use a Resolve workflow that had me upgrading.

A couple of more notes:
1. I cannot get Resolve to render a Sony MXF file with audio. It fails to do it. To make sure that audio wasn't the issue, I rendered the .mov DNxHD file without audio, too. That is reflected in the log file above. Audio does not appear to be the problem. I do wish I could use audio, though!
2. I tried rendering an MXF file from Resolve using the DNxHD codec. I could render it, but I could not add (import) it to VP12's timeline.
3. I tried rendering an .mov file from Resolve using the H.264 codec (with audio). I could render it. I could bring the .mov files into VP12, but the import of the VP12-created XML file failed.

The error I receive in Resolve when importing the VP12-created XML file (created by using the Export--Final Cut Pro7/DaVinci Resolve function) depends on whether I select (in Resolve) to import the clips into the media pool. With this workflow, you should not select this option (it is a check box). However, I tried it both ways just to see if the timeline could be imported with the media (and it cannot, apparently).
If I don't choose to import the media, the Resolve error reads:
'The clip "BMCC_2013-03-12_1129_C0004_992232.mov" failed to link because the media file "BMCC_2013-03-12_1129_C0004_992232.mov" is missing.'
If I do choose to import the media (I actually have to locate it in a subsequent step), the Resolve error reads:
'The clip "BMCC_2013-03-12_1129_C0004_992232.mov" can't be linked to the media file "BMCC_2013-03-12_1129_C0004_992232.mov" because the timecode extents do not match."

Again, these errors do not occur if I use .mxf with the MPEG-4 codec. Resolve imports the XML successfully and all is well.

The errors do occur if I use .mov with either the DNxHD or H.264 codecs.

Finally, these errors do not occur if I use Premiere Pro in this workflow (instead of VP12) or (oddly, to me) if I insert Premiere Pro in between VP12 and Resolve. That is, if I export a prproj from VP12 and then create an XML from PrPro (after saving the PrPro project from within PrPro), all works fine with DNxHD proxies.

That's what my experimenting and your helpful comments have brought us to so far - which I count as progress. Any remaining help (with the hopes of being able to use the DNxHD codec and/or one of the others with audio) is greatly appreciated!

Hi Jason,
I'm primarily going to use the cineform >Vegas workflow, but also I'm interested in the Resolve roundtrip workflow also.

I might be able to come up with a temp work around, I've made a few other EDL Utilities for myself in the past to help with things like audio sync.

Because I don't have the cam yet, I'm still on the free version of Resolve, which can't make the Sony MXF files. Plus I'm still on Vegas 2011, so I'm flying blind.

A) It might be possible to do a simple fix to the XML.
If you could you send me an example Sony XML (3 or 4 clips) , the equivalent file that gets sent to Premiere and the result Premiere XML, I could look at it to see if there's something quick and dirty that can be done.

B) Another possibility would be to go ahead and use the Sony MXFs, drop the clips on the Vegas time line, export out a Vegas EDL.

Then I could make a simple utility to create a Vegas EDL that would point to the audio files. You open that, cut and paste it on an audio track in the original Vegas project, then group the clips to the audio....right, a lot of work, but this is similar to what I do with my audio sync utility, it's not as bad as it sounds.

I would need to see the folder/file structure and naming with the DNGs and audio files, I can't remember if it was clear in the manual or not.

If Sony is working on this let me know.

Just trying to help,
Thanks,
Keith

K-Decisive, if you get a chance to make "any" EDL utilities for Vegas outputs and would/could, if you please, consider posting them to the general community.
What I am thinking of, is like utilities, written for transposing subtitle formats, the handling of VegasPro -XML -edl listings is just a matter of text and space insertion management. A fairly simple task at that or at least it ought to be.
You may have some preferences and concerns about the shareware community, but I can assure you, if you can do this, it will be worth it's weight in gold. Just sayin...

Keith,

Thank you very much for your generous offer and thoughts on this.

Given that I have the Premiere Pro workaround right now, I'm going to stick with it until SCS fixes this.

Your post made me revisit something I had tried before. I had done something similar to what you seemed to hint at, which is to compare the PrPro XML with the Vegas XML. There were too many differences for me to make heads or tails of what is going on.

But, given that I was able to get the MXF files to work, it dawned on me to use the exact same Vegas Pro 12 project, but replace the MOV files with MXF files. In each case, I exported an XML (one with the MOV files on the timeline and one with the MXF files on the timeline). I was able to compare these XML files.

The only difference I found in going line-by-line in the XML files was that the MXF XML file had a number (it was 992232) after the <frame> tag (in the media element) whereas the MOV XML file had a 0 value there. Since I was using two media files, there were only two such instances. So, I replaced the two 0's in the MOV XML with the numbers in MXF file. And it worked! Resolve then read this XML and linked the files just as it had with the MXF XML.

So, I hope this gives SCS something to go on to fix this.

Paddy - since I never received a response to my support ticket, could you please pass this along to the proper people?

Might be that somebody is interested on a Vegas - DaVinci Resolve Round-Trip without using XML Export.

I did develope a method which has following advantages:

A) round-trip does also work with Vegas Pro Versions <12
B) rewrapping to DNxHD takes place after editing
C) post edit rewrapping saves space on hard-drive and render time as it includes head and tail trimming of clips up to cut-only length
D) its possible to apply noise reduction and velocity envelopes to rewrapped files, hence before color grading
E) it's quick and frame accurate
F) final edit will contain all transitions like cross fates, black screen pauses
G) it's free

Please have a look at:
http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6238/edl_convert-workflow-developement-for-sony-vegas-pro-davinci-resolve-/p1

Some comments are missing from the previous post by Tida...

"Date: 3/22/2013 4:14:39 AM

If somebody thinks that an XML export in VegasPro12 is the only solution for a Round-Trip from Vegas thru DaVinci Resolve and that would be the reason you to seek an upgrade to VegasPro12 - then you are mistaken..... see here.....

I did develope an new way by means of EDL txt conversions. VEGAS EDL does include nearly same information as XML. And I would say you finally can have some additional avantages:...."

JasonATL,
I've had the exact same issue. It is a broken system and the people saying that it was never meant to be "This was not meant to adhere to any sort of project interchange standard" with regards to an XML export is simply wrong. When a menu option says export to "xx" program it should export to that format.
I've been having a similar go around and found this link which doesn't fix the core issue about it not working, but others have had the same issues with DNxHD exports from Vegas and as I have experienced it drops one frame on every clip regardless of length. http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6238/edl_convert-workflow-developement-for-sony-vegas-pro-davinci-resolve-/p1
Our solution has been to batch render our cut projects to *.MXF files and then export the XML Resolve setting. For export we are using DNxHD so the issue seems to be the timecode Vegas is attaching to the DNxHD files or how Resolve is reading on import.
Did you have any red, unlinked clips in your import when trying DNxHD? That also seemed to be solved with MXF.
We used Cineform for the longest time, but with our two latest computer builds for Vegas 12 (i7-3930k, SSD system, 3qty 7200 2TB drives, Windows 7 Pro, and 560ti & the other with 480GTX) we haven't been able to get Cineform to encode properly in Vegas. I've scoured the forums and since the most common conversation seems to be Sony not working with Cineform, we have moved to DNxHD and MXF's.
Good luck and enjoy the limitless possibilities with Resolve.