Unfortunately V7 changed something so the CF 2.xx won't work with it.

I am peeved at this... the Cineform codec was in my opinion expensive in the first place for a codec/transcoder which I should not have needed had Vegas 6 worked with HDV files like V7 does know like it was supposed too.

I am upset that I have to pay more money to cineform after dumping money into V7 update which is opperating as V6 should have in the first place.

I am forced to still use connectHD because V7 is not capturing HDV properly Missing clips all over the place driving me nuts.

So what is this going to be a never ending money syphon everytime someon fixes something that was supposed to working the first time?

Meanwhile people who crack the software are getting work done.

I have been struggling to find the problem since V7 came out practicly pulling my hair out.

Cineform please make a patch (v2.2) that works in V7 Free or Vegas fix this issue on your end.

I/we should not hafto pay for this update as a customer service jesture.

As far as I am concerned am not a happy customer. I do not intend on purchasing any other cineform product again.

Vegas if you are going to partner with any body make sure that they are going to serve your customers and live up to the hype you market.

Pissed off customer

There was a breakdown between Sony and Cineform in the beta testing stage and CF didn't get included. Sony changed Vegas in a way that is incompatible with the old CF codecs, so this problem appears to have arisen through lack of development coordination. So I wouldn't be putting all the blame on Cineform.
So far as your capturing problem goes, why not capture with Cineform and not do the conversion to the DI? Are you having trouble with Vegas not splitting scenes correctly, or just dropping out? You could capture without splitting (then split in trimmer, or use HDVsplit -- name? do a search for mentions in this forum). You are clearly having problems with Vegas 7 and the Cineform issue is separate.

EDIT: various software packages do undergo significant upgrades from time to time (Vegas being one) and quite reasonably you have to pay to get the benefits. Obviously one would hope that everything is backwardly compatible, but often it isn't.

Thank you Serena,

You have actually provided a decent solution that i will try. I am cool down now and please understand that I don't get upset like this often. If you check other threads posted by me I having been trying to figure out this crashing thing since V7 came out. Christmas time is coming,Client want to show their weddings at christmas I am behind and been wasting time trying to get this working. V6 works but I paid for V7 to speed up the editing and render time which it does. somehow reading cineforms tech support response to either buy the 3.2 upgrade or use vegas 6 just sent me threw the roof.

Through all of this I forgot that cineform can capture as .m2t files.

Thank you for your solution in the end I just want to get work done.

Capturing of m2t files with scene detection can be done with HDVSplit, too.

In addition, the preview capabilities of m2 files are better at the moment, compared with intermediate codecs. So, from that perspecitve m2t files can be used in the timeline. Limitations are given if you wish to apply compositing at an intensive level.

I am using Cineform 2.1 with Vegas 7b and no problems save its VERY SLOW. No crashes. Later today I am performing a Cineform 2.1 vs native m2t teat so I will report back with frame rate comparisons.

Limitations are given if you wish to apply compositing at an intensive level.

Wolfgang, can you please elaborate further on that? What I got from Sony's post on a different thread was that you don't lose quality (compared to using an intermediate) from an .m2t original as long as there is no multi-generation rendering. What are the limitations imposed by compositing?

MH stevens

"I am using Cineform 2.1 with Vegas 7b and no problems."

It definately dosen't work on my XP64 amd opteron system.
just so you know I am not going by Serena's answer this is the answer from cineform.

"We have solved your issue.
With Vegas 7, Sony's programers changed the way it handled our CineForm Intermediate AVI files. As a result we needed to re-write our codec. This updated version is only available in Connet HD 3.2. You're still using version 2.1. In order to use CineForm files in Vegas 7, you'll need to upgrade to the latest version of Connect HD. You can do that from our website. If you don't want to upgrade, you can continue to use Connect HD in Vegas 6."

No I tried Serena's logical answer, recaptured the tape in M2t and V7 won't open the file at all.

So thanks Serena dead end...

I am now going to try HDVsplit...wish me luck

Something odd going on there. The m2t file captured by CF isn't changed and I've had no problems going through that loop. I presume you have been able to open m2t files on V7 timeline?

Nevertheless, try the the HDVsplit path, for many have reported favourably on that.

I said no crashes but not that it worked well. It is uselessly SLOW. I understand just what happened and I agree that Cineform's position making us choose between staying with 6 or buying again for 7 is a bummer.

@ Jayster,

typical compositing tasks will require more then one render generations very likely. You take the material out from the NLE, bring it to AE or Boris Red, build up here the special effects, render it out and re-import it to the NLE. So, here you will need more then one render generation very likely. So, if you intend to do so, you better use codecs like the YUV codec of Sony, the Cineform or the Canpus HQ codec.

I remember the statement by Dave quite well -

"No matter what the source format is, it gets processed in Vegas as RGB 4:4:4, and from there it gets rendered to the output format you choose (WMV, DV, M2t etc etc)"

and

"If you have a timeline with a variety of original sources (m2t included) and you apply fx and titles etc and then you render to your output file, you'll get the cleanest possible result (because you didn't compress in any intermediate steps)."

Maybe there could be some areas, where issue can take place: that could be for chromakeying (but that can be improved by chroma-smoothing with using chroma-blur), secondary color correction (where 4:2:0 never was an issue, even not with DV-avi). Titles an be an issue if you have sharp edges - but here it is easy to use white titels, maybe with slightly unsharp edges. Another issue can be graphs with fine lines - but here we are used to add slight bluring filters. This comments follow also inputs by Marco B.

So, as long as you render native m2t files directly from the Vegas timeline - in the 0.Generation, so directly captured from the HDV camcorder - you should be fine in most cases.

Thanks, Wolfgang, for your comments. I've heard a number of people saying that complex compositing is a problem for native HDV, but none have continued on to say it's because these operations typically require multiple generations of rendering. That is what seems to really be at the heart of the issue. There may well be other issues, but I don't know what they might be.

I've seen in VideoMaker magazine that they tend to advocate editing native HDV. Then the examples they describe using it for seem to only involve cutting, so I have a hard time taking them seriously. Now with Vegas 7 I can put a lot more credence in native HDV editing, in a qualified sense (e.g. "as long as there is no multiple generations of rendering"). Same should be true regardless of what NLE is being used.

Well, I have performed also some render tests. Not everybody agrees with them, but to my opinion they show that the quality drop is less worth when you render m2t -> m2t -> m2t, compared with other intermediates.

http://wolfgang.sb-web.de/misc/Codectest/Codectest.zip

The zip file has a lot of png-pictures from that render tests, there is a veg 6 file to help one to organize that. You can compare the different generations with the original material.

One limitation is that the motive has been a static one - but as said: have a look by yourself.

Today I did my testing of Vegas 7b with Cineform v2.1 and frame rate comparisons.

Firstly I DID manage to get Cineform to cause Vegas to have a exception error and close. This happens ONLY if Vegas is OPEN while capturing with HDLink. When using Cineform always capture to HD BEFORE opening an instance (any instance) of Vegas.

I took 7 clips and captured with Vegas 7b and with Cineform v2.1. I color corrected and tested frame rate and then I added fades and tested again. Here is what I got with my 3.4GH

Cineform: Color Corrected 15fps, Color Corrected and fades 10fps
Vegas Native: CC 10fps and with fades also 6fps.

Shows Cineform, even v2.1, is better than Vegas 7 alone.

As for Cineform 3.22 it started out on this same trial at nearly full frame rate but after getting into the middle of the test its frame rate dropped to 10 just like v2.1 so I'm not sure just how much better it will be when I get to use it in a real-life large project.

This problem has already been made known.

See the thread below.

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=487227

In your test MH stevens work with files that are fairly long like a 30 min ceremony.

It work for awhile and then crashes even if HD link is not open thats what made it so hard to track down.

I actually had to get into a save eery two minuets patern and then reload when V7 would crash to finish a scene.

as far as using M2T files from Cineform 2.1 Serena it dosen't work and never did on both my machines. I remembered why I never thought of that as an option. Totally wierd, I don't know I am not a programmer. I would be happy to give you my pc spec. I use all bought software and scan for virus regularly with microsoft defender on both pc and only this pc dual xeon 2.4 goes on the internet.

I am tired of playing fix the computer.

Oh and the HDVsplit I will try it again maybe I did something wrong but only one clip showed up on the drive and it work no problem in V7. I will try to see if I can capture the entire tape

In my last project I edited with Cineform 3.22, no crashes whatsoever, but then had to downgrade and render with v2.1 due to a MAJOR bug with v3.22's rendering. Which I will likely get into in a new thread at some point, unless they release a fix before then (they've confirmed and have known about the problem since the middle of October now...)

Sunflux - this rendering bug in 3.22, is it new for that build? I still have 3.2 installed. And what is this bug?

Can you belive we are event having this problem with a company who makes the camera and the software. If you make the camera and the codec, make the software work with it.
Come on sony were shelling out a few hunderd bucks to a third party to get you equipment and software to work right. how about a real fix.

No bug in the 3.22 I just got with my 2.1 $99 upgrade. But how is it better than 2.1. I've heared faster but I don't see that yet.

It's probably faster in Vegas 6 compared with the codec from HD Connect 2.1.

The problem with several companies working on any one system is this pass the buck thing when something goes wrong and the only person who has to pay for it is the end user.

Sony isn't off the hook with this becuase I shouldn't have needed a third party company to acheive the basic work flow in the first place.

Cineforms codec was/is about the a 1/3 of Vegas. Which to me is expensive for a codec.

Imagine having to pay for all of the driver updates for your pc devices everytime windows came out with a new service pak.

Again Sony isn't off the hook, V7 should of been V6 version g. Other than lots of fixes and improvements for XDCAM platform there isn't much that applies to me other than faster processing which it should have been doing in the first place.

In my humble opinion it would be a great customer service jesture to update 2.1 to 2.5 that address the problems the Vegas caused without any of the new features free, while simultaneously soft selling customers to purchase 3.2.

This jesture would instill confidence in cineforms customers who are all evoling and will one day need your higher end bigger ticket items.