VEGAS 17 (Version 321) keeps freezing and crashing

Fiola wrote on 10/4/2019, 11:39 AM

Hello Magix, long time no see :),

I have to say, this is the first time for a long time I need to express how great improvements you actually did. VEGAS 17 is far better in performance. I can easily edit & finish 4K projects with much ease. I see timeline performance improvements. No major lags between cuts even for H264 files. I cannot be happier about this outcome more.

Except one thing. Which never changed since I uploaded my video dated more than 1 year ago in VEGAS 16 here:

In this specific video, you can see in the end absolutely random crash (freeze of the program), which is now more than doubled in VEGAS 17. So on one hand, VEGAS 17 have great performance, but I need to restart it like 90 times during any project I edit. This behaviour can be replicated on every machine we have in our studio. Even on Trial version of VEGAS 17. AMD systems, Intel systems - always the same thing. It doesn't matter which Windows 10 version we are using. We tried that a lot. Newest drivers, newers codecs, or fresh install, older, newer. It is always the same. It keeps crashing. Not just us, but many users - as I said. Even on Trial and fresh installed PC.

  1. You start edit video.
  2. Cut it for like example 3 minutes.
  3. Then in one out of 20-ish playback preview ... you hit spacebar for playback and you get stuck your image on some frame.
  4. You will see that preview window is freezed (you see dots loading probably next frame - which will never happen) -> (....)
  5. During that time, you can actually save your project. You hear audio. And preview on timeline is still going without any video preview.
  6. Once you will try to stop playback preview - and these dots are still frozen - you get Crash.

We called it in the team "MERCIFUL CRASH", since when you work around that, you can actually learn to hit CTRL+S and then smashing X or Kill software from Task manager and load-up your project to continue work. Problem is, when you need do that every few minutes.

Once again: I strongly believe, this has to be unmanaged exception. It's dated since VEGAS 15, VEGAS 16 intensify that behaviour with "MERCIFUL CRASH" (you can save project before crash!), a then in VEGAS 17 is this behavior upped to the max. I keep telling myself, that at least we have smooth playback now. That's only thing keeping me sane on this... :)

For sake of the argument, I will update here my specification:

Windows 10.0.18362
Intel Core i9-9900K, 3,6GHz
32 GB DDR4 RAM
RTX 2080 Ti Founders Edition
2TB NVMe + 1 TB NVMe storage

NVIDIA Driver: Studio Driver, 431.86

So, that should be covered... or.. we can even add this AMD build we did for VEGAS to tryout performance:

Windows 10.0.18362
AMD Ryzen 5 3600
32 GB DDR4 RAM
AMD Radeon Nitro RX 5700 XT 8 GB
1 TB NVMe + 2 TB HDD 7200rpm

With newest catalyst drivers.

Same result with random freezing and crashing.

Lastly, but not last, here is the MediaInfo for one of the videos which happen to crash the preview. But it's more like it crashes randomly, it's not only H264. But since I am editing most of the H264 videos, that's keeping to crash most of the time.

Format                      : MPEG-4
Format profile              : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                    : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                   : 15.3 GiB
Duration                    : 54 min 31 s
Overall bit rate            : 40.2 Mb/s
Recorded date               : 2019
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-04 14:44:26
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-04 14:44:26

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : AVC
Format/Info                 : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile              : High@L5.1
Format settings             : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC      : Yes
Format settings, Reference  : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP        : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                    : avc1
Codec ID/Info               : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                    : 54 min 31 s
Source duration             : 54 min 31 s
Bit rate                    : 40.0 Mb/s
Width                       : 3 840 pixels
Height                      : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 16:9
Frame rate mode             : Variable
Frame rate                  : 58.845 FPS
Minimum frame rate          : 3.935 FPS
Maximum frame rate          : 63.785 FPS
Original frame rate         : 60.000 FPS
Standard                    : PAL
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 8 bits
Scan type                   : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.082
Stream size                 : 15.2 GiB (100%)
Source stream size          : 15.2 GiB (100%)
Title                       : VideoHandle
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-04 14:44:26
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-04 14:44:26
Color range                 : Limited
Color primaries             : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics    : BT.470 System M
Matrix coefficients         : BT.601
mdhd_Duration               : 3271351
Codec configuration box     : avcC

Audio
ID                          : 2
Format                      : AAC LC
Format/Info                 : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                    : mp4a-40-2
Duration                    : 54 min 31 s
Source duration             : 54 min 31 s
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate            : 96.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 2 channels
Channel layout              : L R
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                  : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode            : Lossy
Stream size                 : 75.4 MiB (0%)
Source stream size          : 75.4 MiB (0%)
Title                       : SoundHandle / System sounds
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-04 14:44:26
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-04 14:44:26
mdhd_Duration               : 3271275

 

Let me know, if I can help more with debugging.

But I think I pointed out satisfying information for smashing this bug out of the VEGAS once and for all.

Thank you!

Comments

Fiola wrote on 10/4/2019, 11:54 AM

Oh one more thing! :) I believe that's something related with memory and how the VEGAS is managing memory managment. Since when I am editing with proxies, for example 360p videos, I am getting less crashes. Like really a few, against when using 3840x2160 files. In which case it keeps hanging and freezing like a lot.

So probably - that unmanaged exception somewhere is just some bad memory leak. Which are awful to find and fix. But I am just trying to discuss that from software programmer side :).

j-v wrote on 10/4/2019, 11:56 AM

Problem for Vegas was and is too much difference in framerate as your file shows. Untill now the only way to overcome this is converting to steady framerate with one or another good program. There are also scrips for Vegas to do this. Search the forum.

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Fiola wrote on 10/4/2019, 12:01 PM

Problem for Vegas was and is too much difference in framerate as your file shows. Untill now the only way to overcome this is converting to steady framerate with one or another good program. There are also scrips for Vegas to do this. Search the forum.


Well. Yes. I understood variable framerate. Okay, but it happens also for this format so I don't think that will be the case why is VEGAS crashing. It happens even with constant frame-rate videos :) :

Format                      : MPEG-4
Format profile              : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                    : mp42 (mp42/avc1)
File size                   : 9.23 GiB
Duration                    : 9 min 8 s
Overall bit rate mode       : Variable
Overall bit rate            : 145 Mb/s
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13
PANA                        :

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : AVC
Format/Info                 : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile              : High@L5.2
Format settings             : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC      : Yes
Format settings, Reference  : 2 frames
Codec ID                    : avc1
Codec ID/Info               : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                    : 9 min 8 s
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Bit rate                    : 143 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate            : 158 Mb/s
Width                       : 3 840 pixels
Height                      : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 16:9
Frame rate mode             : Constant
Frame rate                  : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 8 bits
Scan type                   : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.288
Stream size                 : 9.13 GiB (99%)
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13
Color range                 : Full
Color primaries             : BT.709
Transfer characteristics    : BT.709
Matrix coefficients         : BT.709
Codec configuration box     : avcC

Audio
ID                          : 2
Format                      : PCM
Format settings             : Big / Signed
Codec ID                    : twos
Duration                    : 9 min 8 s
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 2 channels
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                   : 16 bits
Stream size                 : 100 MiB (1%)
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13

Other
ID                          : 3
Type                        : Time code
Format                      : QuickTime TC
Duration                    : 9 min 8 s
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Frame rate                  : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame    : 08:20:30;03
Time code, striped          : Yes
Encoded date                : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13
Tagged date                 : UTC 2019-10-01 19:49:13

Sylk wrote on 10/4/2019, 8:01 PM
 
  1. You start edit video.
  2. Cut it for like example 3 minutes.
  3. Then in one out of 20-ish playback preview ... you hit spacebar for playback and you get stuck your image on some frame.
  4. You will see that preview window is freezed (you see dots loading probably next frame - which will never happen) -> (....)
  5. During that time, you can actually save your project. You hear audio. And preview on timeline is still going without any video preview.
  6. Once you will try to stop playback preview - and these dots are still frozen - you get Crash.

 

Exactly my bug here https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp17-does-not-respond-after-some-repeated-play-stop--117195/

 

Last changed by Sylk on 10/4/2019, 8:04 PM, changed a total of 1 times. 

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 536.23 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[SND] : Asus Xonar Essence STX
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 28" Samsung U28D590 @3840x2160

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 11Pro/6S.
[REC] : Zoom Handy Recorder H4.
joseph-desaavedra wrote on 10/6/2019, 3:51 AM

sounding a little familiar...

INTEL INTEL I9-12900K
LIANLI LANCOOL II MESH Computer Case
G.SKILL 32Gig 2X16 D55600C36 TRGB
SAMSUNG SSD 1TB 990PRO NVME
SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 990PRO NVME
SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 980PRO NVME
GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS PRO ATX
SEASONIC FOCUS 850W 80+G FM ATX  Power Supply
MS OEM WINDOWS10 HOME 64BIT OEM
GPU EVGA RTX 3090 TI
VEGAS PRO EDIT VERSION20 411
MOTITOR LG ULTRAGEAR 48 INCH OLED

Grazie wrote on 10/6/2019, 3:57 AM

@Fiola - Did you get a solution?

AlesCZ wrote on 10/6/2019, 9:08 AM

I have similar problems. When editing 4K 60fps, preview playback is terrible. Playback slows down to ~2fps in a few seconds.

If I have 4K 30fps, or slow down 60fps footage to half (playback rate), playback works normally.

Fiola wrote on 10/6/2019, 12:25 PM

@Fiola - Did you get a solution?


Unfortunately, no solution so far for this... even with or without SO4 plugin enabled, or without hardware acceleration. This is wide-spread unmanaged memory exception. I am trying to debug software on my own, but of course, the code is really hard to decrypt to find where Magix has mistake. But at the bare minimum, there should be safe-function, which will handle the crash of the preview window, and will prevent to freeze whole software. Maybe it is time to make preview window as stand-alone plugin or something... which will have process for itself. That way, when preview crashes, you just re-initiate the plugin :). But that is a long shot. I am not an engineer of this software.

Fiola wrote on 10/6/2019, 12:26 PM

I have similar problems. When editing 4K 60fps, preview playback is terrible. Playback slows down to ~2fps in a few seconds.

If I have 4K 30fps, or slow down 60fps footage to half (playback rate), playback works normally.


That's more like you are editing on slow HDD. Do you have really processing power to decode 4K60 ? It doesn't seem that way, but you need monster machine to be able do that :). The VEGAS 17 playback is pretty awesome in this, but we found out that you need RTX2080 Ti / RTX2070 to really appreciate the power. :)

Kinvermark wrote on 10/6/2019, 12:52 PM

@Fiola

Does the crash happen even with a super simple timeline? For example, if you put ONE clip of your 59.94 footage on a timeline, will it eventually crash?

Fiola wrote on 10/6/2019, 3:36 PM

@Fiola

Does the crash happen even with a super simple timeline? For example, if you put ONE clip of your 59.94 footage on a timeline, will it eventually crash?

Yes. It happens also for 25fps videos. :) It will eventually always crash.

Kinvermark wrote on 10/6/2019, 3:54 PM

So, the reason for my question is that in order to get this fixed, one first has to identify the problem in such a way that others can reproduce it. And second, that information has to be communicated to the developers.

So, if you have a short media file that you know for a fact causes a crash, then please post it here (dropbox link is a good choice) so others can reproduce the problem. Thanks!

Fiola wrote on 10/7/2019, 10:41 AM

So, the reason for my question is that in order to get this fixed, one first has to identify the problem in such a way that others can reproduce it. And second, that information has to be communicated to the developers.

So, if you have a short media file that you know for a fact causes a crash, then please post it here (dropbox link is a good choice) so others can reproduce the problem. Thanks!

Since it's unmanaged exception - you can use any video file you like. It is not dependent on some video file. All files does that. When you can preview it. It can freeze. :) So I can upload here any video, and it will be true for the problem. I can't figure out why devs would not replicate the issue. It's common in huge percentage of people. Not everyone I know that has this problem is writing here.

Kinvermark wrote on 10/7/2019, 1:12 PM

Here we go again. You pop up every few months with the same complaint, and then refuse to substantiate it.

Post a file that YOU KNOW causes a crash. If you actually can... maybe you aren't as confident as you claim?

It's common in huge percentage of people

This is a ridiculous claim as you have no way of knowing this. You and your buddies do not represent a "huge percentage" of Vegas users.

I remain open to the idea that 59.94 files are problematic, but I am not willing to take your word for it.

PS - And the developers aren't going to either. They need to be able to reproduce the error in order to fix it.

Kinvermark wrote on 10/7/2019, 1:37 PM

"Problematic" 59.94 media posted by AlesCZ on another thread. No problem so far on my old PC. Hmmm?

Maybe I am the only one who can play this back OK?

VEGASPascal wrote on 10/8/2019, 2:32 AM

Good morning community.

@Fiola In your example video I see that you are using a water-marked trial and the freeze occurs just beyond the 2-minute duration in your project timeline. In the trails there are some 2-minute limits.. but I believe this is not the real problem.

(and @joseph-desaavedra) It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx.

Fiola wrote on 10/8/2019, 5:20 AM

Here we go again. You pop up every few months with the same complaint, and then refuse to substantiate it.

Post a file that YOU KNOW causes a crash. If you actually can... maybe you aren't as confident as you claim?

It's common in huge percentage of people

This is a ridiculous claim as you have no way of knowing this. You and your buddies do not represent a "huge percentage" of Vegas users.

I remain open to the idea that 59.94 files are problematic, but I am not willing to take your word for it.

PS - And the developers aren't going to either. They need to be able to reproduce the error in order to fix it.


It's any file. JPEG, MOV, MP4, AVI on timeline. After some time spend in the vegas. you get freeze & crash described above. I can send you any file on the internet. Literally. Please, go on google. Download any MP4 file and try to edit that in newest VEGAS 17. You will see the same result described by me, in horizon of few minutes of actually using the software. :)

Fiola wrote on 10/8/2019, 5:23 AM

Good morning community.

@Fiola In your example video I see that you are using a water-marked trial and the freeze occurs just beyond the 2-minute duration in your project timeline. In the trails there are some 2-minute limits.. but I believe this is not the real problem.

(and @joseph-desaavedra) It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx.

Hi Pascal, yes - it's not time dependent. It's really hard to catch when exactly the preview window freeze. But common thing is between cuts. Just on the verge of cut - it seems there are % chance of the freeze. So when you will create any project, put there video with at least 10 cuts, range it in the loop - let it go several times and try to pause and play it in repeat using spacebar... you will get the freeze & crash in a matter of minutes.

 

VEGASPascal wrote on 10/8/2019, 5:59 AM

@Fiola We are testing this.

What happens with...

"It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx"

Fiola wrote on 10/8/2019, 7:25 AM

@Fiola We are testing this.

What happens with...

"It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx"

We are testing that! Thank you for the tip. We will share if that helps in a moment :).

joseph-desaavedra wrote on 10/8/2019, 7:55 AM
limits.. but I believe this is not the real problem.

(and @joseph-desaavedra) It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx.

Yes I will and thank you very very much, I have a number of things to try in this weeks video, and I am sure thanks to you tech support started interacting with me too. They want me to reinstall with some administrator commands (they gave me detailed instructions) So maybe I can make a little progress this week. I am crossing the hell out of my fingers. Will also video log the sessions too.

 

INTEL INTEL I9-12900K
LIANLI LANCOOL II MESH Computer Case
G.SKILL 32Gig 2X16 D55600C36 TRGB
SAMSUNG SSD 1TB 990PRO NVME
SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 990PRO NVME
SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 980PRO NVME
GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS PRO ATX
SEASONIC FOCUS 850W 80+G FM ATX  Power Supply
MS OEM WINDOWS10 HOME 64BIT OEM
GPU EVGA RTX 3090 TI
VEGAS PRO EDIT VERSION20 411
MOTITOR LG ULTRAGEAR 48 INCH OLED

bitman wrote on 10/8/2019, 8:48 AM

@Fiola Maybe a few (maybe silly, but you never know) questions,

1) Do you have automatic save on or off?

2) Do you have Vegasaur installed?

3) Dynamic RAM Preview max at 0 or default 200, or any other number?

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 suite (VP 22 build 194) VP 21 build 315, VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 17 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2025, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 18, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner studio X, DXO photolab (8), Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 24H2 (since October 2024)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K),
  • Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 G2 HBC (September 2024 upgrade from Noctua NH-D15s)
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Sylk wrote on 10/8/2019, 9:12 AM

Maybe a few (maybe silly, but you never know) questions,

1) Do you have automatic save on or off?

2) Do you have Vegasaur installed?

3) Dynamic RAM Preview max at 0 or default 200, or any other number?

@bitman Same issue for me, and personally 1) off, 2) no, 3) 0 the last time that's occured.

What happens with...

"It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx"

@VEGASPascal I close it and i'll saw if this issue no longer occurs.

Software:
[OS]  : Windows 10 Ent. x64 v1903 (18362.535)
[NLE] : Vegas Pro 17.0 (Build 321) // (Build 284 if posted before 9/24/19)
[DRV] : Studio 536.23 (Display, PhysX, HD Audio) // (Game Ready 436.15 if posted before 9/24/19)
Hardware:
[GPU] : Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / GTX 1080 Phoenix GLH
[CPU] : Intel Core i7-2600K @3.4GHz OC@4.5GHz (HyperThreaded) | AirCooling: Noctua NH-D14
[RAM] : 16GB (4x 4GB GSkill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600MHz 9-9-9-24) @1333MHz
[SSD] : Samsung 860 Pro 1TB
[MOB] : Asus P8P67 Deluxe (Rev.1), No iGPU support
[SND] : Asus Xonar Essence STX
[PSU] : Corsair HX750
Devices:
[DSP1]: 30" DELL UltraSharp U3011 @2560x1600
[DSP2]: 28" Samsung U28D590 @3840x2160

[UPS] : Eaton 5PX 2200i RT

[CAM] : GoPro Hero8/4/3 Black. Apple iPhone 11Pro/6S.
[REC] : Zoom Handy Recorder H4.
Fiola wrote on 10/8/2019, 12:29 PM

@Fiola We are testing this.

What happens with...

"It sounds strange but could you close your File Explorer in the default layout? Perhaps on some systems there is an interaction between File Explorer and Preview or other internal operations... some internal tests have shown some conflicts. Please give us some feedback. Thx"


I did finish the one video project ... without ANY CRASH ... I dont want to jinx it ... but oh my god! Could it be?!

I will be monitoring this through tomorrow and be back to you ASAP.