Vegas 17 worse preview performance / Same project in V16 run smoothly

ERT wrote on 10/3/2019, 3:50 AM

Hello everybody,

I'm actually very patient, but right now I'm desperate. With the update to Vegas 17 (Build 321), I was looking forward to a smooth editing thanks to Color Grading Panel etc.

Now I have started the first project with 17 and I just can't work fluently. As soon as I put two video files on top of each other, Vegas 17 just doesn't come after me to show a good preview. I achieve 15 - 20 fps with 2 video streams and 3 audio tracks and that with low preview quality. I'd like to note that I've recreated the same project with the same files in Vegas Pro 16 and get a completely smooth preview here.

The media files used are not a big challenge and run absolutely smoothly in Vegas 16 in many projects. Of course, the usual settings in the project etc. are also set accordingly. I have the feeling that one of the many new settings for video encoding in Vegas 17 are set wrong?

GPU acceleration is disabled.
I already activated and deactivated hardware decoding for supported formats without any noteworthy improvements.

But I don't really know what all the new settings are supposed to do or when which setting makes sense.

I've been reading in the US forum the whole time but haven't seen a suitable solution yet. Maybe I lost a helpful hint?

Otherwise I would be happy if someone would give me a helpful tip on how to get Vegas 17 running smooth.

Thanks in advance

Used project settings (exactly the same as Vegas 16)

My Computer: i7 3770 with 4x 3,4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, Windows 10 (SSD), Videofiles stored on a SSD, nVidia Quadro 2000

Used Videofiles Kamera 1 (Example)

Codec-ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)
Dateigröße                               : 72,0 MiB
Dauer                                    : 11s 40 ms
Modus der Gesamtbitrate                  : variabel
Gesamte Bitrate                          : 54,7 Mb/s
Kodierungs-Datum                         : UTC 2019-09-21 10:34:09
Tagging-Datum                            : UTC 2019-09-21 10:34:09

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format-Profil                            : High@L4.2
Format-Einstellungen                     : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format-Einstellungen für CABAC           : Ja
Format-Einstellungen für RefFrames       : 2 frames
Codec-ID                                 : avc1
Codec-ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Dauer                                    : 11s 40 ms
Bitraten-Modus                           : variabel
Bitrate                                  : 52,4 Mb/s
maximale Bitrate                         : 60,0 Mb/s
Breite                                   : 1 920 Pixel
Höhe                                     : 1 080 Pixel
Bildseitenverhältnis                     : 16:9
Modus der Bildwiederholungsrate          : konstant
Bildwiederholungsrate                    : 50,000 FPS
ColorSpace                               : YUV
ChromaSubsampling/String                 : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String                          : 8 bits
Scantyp                                  : progressiv
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.505
Stream-Größe                             : 69,0 MiB (96%)
Kodierungs-Datum                         : UTC 2019-09-21 10:34:09
Tagging-Datum                            : UTC 2019-09-21 10:34:09
colour_range                             : Limited
colour_primaries                         : BT.709
transfer_characteristics                 : BT.709
matrix_coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Used Videofiles Kamera 2 (Example)

Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format-Profil                            : Base Media / Version 2
Codec-ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/avc1/CAEP)
Dateigröße                               : 862 MiB
Dauer                                    : 3 min 28s
Gesamte Bitrate                          : 34,6 Mb/s
Kodierungs-Datum                         : UTC 2019-09-21 14:34:19
Tagging-Datum                            : UTC 2019-09-21 14:34:19

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format-Profil                            : High@L4.2
Format-Einstellungen                     : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format-Einstellungen für CABAC           : Ja
Format-Einstellungen für RefFrames       : 2 frames
Format_Settings_GOP                      : M=3, N=24
Codec-ID                                 : avc1
Codec-ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Dauer                                    : 3 min 28s
Bitrate                                  : 34,4 Mb/s
Breite                                   : 1 920 Pixel
Höhe                                     : 1 080 Pixel
Bildseitenverhältnis                     : 16:9
Modus der Bildwiederholungsrate          : konstant
Bildwiederholungsrate                    : 50,000 FPS
ColorSpace                               : YUV
ChromaSubsampling/String                 : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String                          : 8 bits
Scantyp                                  : progressiv
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.331
Stream-Größe                             : 855 MiB (99%)
Sprache                                  : Englisch
Kodierungs-Datum                         : UTC 2019-09-21 14:34:19
Tagging-Datum                            : UTC 2019-09-21 14:34:19
colour_range                             : Limited
colour_primaries                         : BT.709
transfer_characteristics                 : BT.709
matrix_coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Comments

matthias-krutz wrote on 10/3/2019, 4:38 AM

The reason could be the disabled GPU acceleration, so new Color Grading can not benefit from the GPU.

ERT wrote on 10/3/2019, 10:09 AM

I did some tests without hardware acceleration, because this way the system runs much more stable.

I adjusted one of the video files with the Color Grading Panel: The playback rate is dropping.

When I bypass the color grading settings, the playback rate increases.

I reset all color grading settings for the clip: the playback rate is still low (Color Grading Panel is active)

I bypass the color grading settings (although no color adjustments have been made to the video clip) and the playback rate increases.

As I see it here, the Color Grading Panel requires a lot of resources and I only use two video tracks and have a very heavy performance loss in the preview.

Does anyone have similar problems and an idea how to avoid them? Or is this a basic problem that could be solved with an update?

j-v wrote on 10/3/2019, 11:03 AM

Hardware accelleration is a big help for previewing (and rendering) the OFX effects, and as I understood you switched it off, and than what you see as a problem is logic.

ERT wrote on 10/3/2019, 11:37 AM

Surely it is right that hardware acceleration improves previewing and rendering.

In Vegas 16 I also have hardware acceleration disabled and full performance in the preview.

So I still think that in Vegas 17 the Color Grading Panel is causing a problem, or it is a wrong setting in my case.

j-v wrote on 10/3/2019, 12:03 PM

In also VP16 a project with 25 fps , while your sources are 50p XAVC and AVC, and than without HW acell. the preview with colour curves to your

2 video streams and 3 audio tracks and that with low preview quality

without HW accell.

get a completely smooth preview here.

Stay with 16 😄

ERT wrote on 10/3/2019, 12:11 PM

In also VP16 a project with 25 fps , while your sources are 50p XAVC and AVC, and than without HW acell. the preview with colour curves to your

It does not matter whether the project properties are 25 fps or 50 fps. The performance in V17 remains poor and in V16 it is good.

Stay with 16 😄

Yes, it's a pity, but in fact I'm working on the current project with V 16

I hope the next update will bring improvements

j-v wrote on 10/3/2019, 12:48 PM

There were already a lot of improvements , but I think something stinks with your settings altough you are a German nabour.
Look to my VPro 17 showing a test project with 3 4K HEVC GOPro 7 files with Media Generators and Colour grading (Lut) on the part that I showed in a 4K 50p project, heavy enough?

ERT wrote on 10/3/2019, 1:34 PM

Yea thats heavy. I think it would never run so smoothly on my computer with V17. Maybe it's my hardware!

I just wanted to record the behavior of my preview window, but somehow the preview window is not updated.

j-v wrote on 10/3/2019, 1:44 PM

I think it would never run so smoothly on my computer with V17.

It is on desktop from signature, by far not the most expensive one: i7, 16MB ram and Nvidia GTX 1660

matthias-krutz wrote on 10/3/2019, 2:40 PM

So I still think that in Vegas 17 the Color Grading Panel is causing a problem, or it is a wrong setting in my case.

Color grading is complex and computationally expensive compared to CC.
I would try to use the GPU acceleration. For me it is turned off only for testing purposes. The dynamic RAM preview causes more problems. If there are preview or rendering problems, I set the value to zero. Normally it is set to the default 200MB or higher if I want to use the RAM preview function. Vegas does not need to be closed to change this value.

ERT wrote on 10/4/2019, 2:47 AM

Color grading is complex and computationally expensive compared to CC.

I completely agree with you that color grading is very computationally intensive.

But what seems strange to me is that I didn't change any settings on the color grading panel, and if I bypass the color crading settings (although nothing was changed on the clip), the frame rate increases in the preview.

I'd like to record it to show what I mean, but somehow OBS Studio doesn't want to record my preview window.

matthias-krutz wrote on 10/4/2019, 3:44 AM

The color grading with the default settings is not equivalent to bypassing the effects. It would be nice if some improvements were possible. But I think if we want to use all the new possibilities, we need a GPU for acceleration.

ERT wrote on 10/4/2019, 8:00 AM

So I've now managed to record my screen with OBS Studio.

Here you can see the video clips in the timeline. I do some actions to show how the preview frame rate changes.

I have also changed project settings to 50 fps.