Vegas 4.0 and 5.1 Surround Mixing with Delta 66

Former user wrote on 5/22/2003, 1:54 PM
All,

I am beginning to explore mixing in 5.1 surround in my home studio. I am using Vegas 4.0c with the AC-3 decoder with my M-Audio Delta 66. My questions are these:

1. After I set up a 5.1 mix in Vegas - Is it possible to use the Vegas 4.0/AC-3 combo to send a true 5.1 digital stream to the SPDIF output on my Delta 66 card and then feed that stream to an external decoder?

2. Is anyone mixing in 5.1 surround on a pro-sumer set of speakers like Klipsch Promedia or the Logitech Z-680's?

Like many I have talked to - going the true "pro" route can get very pricey to add more speakers into the mix. My main studio monitors are the Event 20/20 BAS. It has been suggested that if I wanted to do 5.1 like the "pros" way, I should add 3 additional Event PS-6 speakers for my rears and center plus the 20/20/12 subwoofer but this is going to run over 2000.00CDN very quick. Plus I may need a new audio interface (like a Delta 1010) and maybe a new hardware mixer as well.

While not considered "pro" by most, The Promedia's or the Z-680's run between $450.00 to $699.00CDN for the entire speaker array and I feel this might be a good way to get a taste of 5.1 mixing without breaking the bank. I do of course have reservations about how these cheaper systems would "color" the mix compared to a very flat response speaker like the 20/20BAS

3. If you are mixing 5.1 in Vegas in any way (pro, consumer, whatever shape or form) - would you be willing to share your hardware and software and how you connected it all to get reasonable 5.1?

Appreciate the time,

Cheers,

Cuzin B

Comments

SonyEPM wrote on 5/22/2003, 2:43 PM
1) "Is it possible to use the Vegas 4.0/AC-3 combo to send a true 5.1 digital stream to the SPDIF output on my Delta 66 card and then feed that stream to an external decoder?"

You cannot feed audio through the SF AC3 encoder in realtime, licensing is one of the reasons. To do what you want, a hardware encoder and decoder would be needed- we have those here, nice but expensive.

2) "Is anyone mixing in 5.1 surround on a pro-sumer set of speakers... "

I'm using about the cheapest 5.1 speaker array you can get, the Creative Inspiron. Certainly not Pro with a captial P but it is better sounding than I thought it would be- others here have said the same. Might be a nice add-on to whatever else you end up using because it is commonly used (esp by gamers).

3) My setup is an Echo Gina, feeding a mixer, feeding a pair of Tannoy monitors (for stereo), the Creative Inspiron 5.1 set (for surround), a "little speaker, mono" Sony PVM TV monitor, and a set of ok Sony headphones. I can easily hop between mono, stereo, 5.1, TV, phones, with minimal fiddling.

For DVDs I've been doing stereo mixes using both PCM and AC3 stereo versions of the audio track for a/b compare. These get burned to DVD and are played back in my Sony NS400D player using the different decode options, most of the time routing that back through the mixer so I can get the monitoring options decribed above. Sometimes I have to tweak the mix, sometimes the encoder settings, or both, whatever to get it to sound good to my ears. 5.1 AC3 can't be a/b'd with PCM from DVD (PCM=stereo only) so I have to playback directly from Vegas (pre-AC3) and listen to the 5.1AC3 mix on DVD, and then tweak to get it right. Time consuming for sure but worth it for the important stuff.

extra tidbit: If you aren't playing back from a DVD disc, in a DVD player, you'll have no idea of how the DVD really sounds (or looks). Software DVD playback is no substiture for the real thing (you knew that).
dr_skipper wrote on 5/22/2003, 2:45 PM
Get a stereo D/A converter (midiman flying calf or similar) for you delta's spdif out. You will then have a total of 6 analog outs. Then get the new Alesis surround monitoring system (about $400) and you are done....
Former user wrote on 5/22/2003, 3:32 PM
Sonic,

Let me re-phrase a bit:

Can I render out/burn a AC-3 mix to CD (or only DVD?) from Vegas to play back through a 5.1 array? Since cost is a factor - I am leaning toward the Logitech Z-680 that has built in Dolby Digital and DTS encoding. I just bought a new DVD player that plays DVD-A and about a thousand other formats so I figure this should work...Yes? No?

dr_skipper

Is D/A via the Midiman necessary? The Alesis and Logitech package look almost identical...they also both ship with hardware DD and DTS decoding via SPDIF (Coax) or Optical (TOS Link)...so all I should need to do is go from SPDIF out on the Delta to SPDIF in on the Logitech Control POD and it should work...or am I completely out to lunch here?

Thanks for all the help. Update when you can.

Cheers,

Cuzin B
dr_skipper wrote on 5/22/2003, 3:58 PM
For MIXING in surround, you need 6 analog outs from your soundcard (Left, Right, Left Rear, Right Rear, Center, Sub). The Alesis system alows for 6 analog IN to mix. You would use the digital out from your soundcard to DECODE an already encoded DVD or CD. I just checked the Logitech Z-680 and it looks almost identical to the Alesis setup, except the Alesis has balanced input connectors (great for your delta).
Your software isn't capable of letting you mix in surround as it encodes an ac3 digital output to be decoded by the Alesis or the Logitech speakers.
Former user wrote on 5/22/2003, 4:34 PM
Skip,

Cool. I think I get it now. Without 6 discrete cables coming off my Delta connected to a mixer that is connected to 6 discrete speakers in my room...it's a no go for live mixing.

But I could still render AC-3 files in Vegas...burn em and then play them back via my DVD player thru the Logitech/Alesis combo....correct?

Cuzin B