Good to hear Rednroll. Because you came here to fight, you didn't really read what I wrote. I never said Vegas is a NLE only. I said that the video side sales are much bigger. Has nothing to do with how Vegas started either. I also said that the audio industry hasn't really embraced Vegas as a DAW. If that is changing now, great. More power to Sony and the audio guys that use it. If this is the first ad in the past few years for Vegas in an audio magazine then my point has been proven. I guess we will also get a post from you when it's listed as an audio product in a mail order catalog?
Mellow out already.

Craig H.

Bit of tongue in cheek, Brian?

"Bit of tongue in cheek, Brian?"

Sure is, just a response to some of these direct quotes from people who don't have a clue about the audio side of the product, and think us audio users owe them a great deal, because if it wasn't for them then we'ld be SOL. Where they should come to the realization that the product is a "multimedia" application and each goes hand in hand.

Quotes:

"Rednroll--you are way off base here. Vegas, whether you like it or not is an NLE--not a dedicated audio program even though it carries the legacy of excellent audio tools that orginated with Sonic Foundry. By the way, the one thing that anyone, and I mean anyone has always said about Vegas is that it kicked butt when it came to its audio abilities--its obvious that the audio end of the application never fell behind any NLE--- (Again, I repeat, Vegas is an NLE). "


"Rednroll---if you are going to sit their and claim that Vegas is primarily an audio tool then we will get absolutely nowhere. Vegas is primarily a video editing tool with fantastic audio features. Someone correct me, but if we polled audio professionals, what percentage do you think use Vegas Video as their primary audio software. I would say the number is very small. Maybe we should have a forum devoted strictly to people who use Vegas for audio only---You might see about three posts a month. C'est la vie--get over it."

"how many audio pro's do you think use Vegas as their primary tool---now be honest Ben"

"the way that Sony markets this thing is by calling it an NLE that has great audio tools. For instance, Vegas doesn't have the full compliment of fx that say Sound Forge has. Why do you think that is the case if Vegas is primarily an audio tool?"

"What I did say is that I don't want to see Vegas fall further behind in the marketplace"

-fall behind in the market place from your perspective of what the market place is.


"all the audio guys should thank your lucky stars that Vegas is both a NLE and a DAW. Sony would have never bought the Sofo product line without Vegas doing video and Vegas could be down the tube if Sony didn't step in. BTW, have you looked at a B&H catalog lately? Vegas isn't sold as an audio product. Many other audio catalogs don't list it either. Has Vegas won any product of the year awards in the audio field or even had any articles about it? Looks like it's not even on the map in the audio field.

"Me too---speaking of which, how many video people really utilize the surround a sound thing regularly in their work???"

"I said that the video side sales are much bigger."

Could you point me to where you got that information from? I didn't know you where part of the Sony sales department. Even if that was true, that might be because Sony also has a whole suite of audio tools to choose from. Do you think the video sales of Vegas really out number those of ACID, and Sound Forge and the audio sales of Vegas combined?

Rednroll, you are absolutely right. I came to Vegas for an NLE. I was blown away by the audio capabilities. I now use Vegas almost exclusively for my audio work. This is a great tool for both Video and Audio.

Nice one.

And Sony needs to push Vegas 5 as an audio app even harder. I think they could make real inroads now in the audio industry.

My one suggestion would be to have an option on setup to have Vegas' initial config as laid out for audio, ie no video preview windows or video FX showing, quantise to frames turned off, etc. I think that the initial 'video-centric' set-up could throw some audio pros and put them off. (They're generally a very conservative lot!)

Ben

Ben, good point. I think one of the most common "audio" questions i see in here is people asking why they can't position the audio "just right" because it keeps jumping around to 1/30 second intervals. It probably wouldn't occur to many audio only user to look for the Quantize to Frames option and turn it off. This problem alone would probably make lots of audio folks wonder about the rest of Vegas' audio capabilities.

Perhaps a default behavior that doesn't quantize audio-only events to frame markers (yet still quantizes video events and grouped A/V events) would be a good compromise.

You guys need to go back to the Roots of what VEGAS was. Remember there were 2 versions: VEGAS Video & VEGAS Audio. Both of which were bad @$$ applications. SonicFoundry just combined the two. This is really what made them super contenders I think. All of a sudden you only had to have 1 app that did both. And did both well! Take note of the other Video & Audio NLE's... they are now trying to follow in the footsteps of this merger. All Audio NLE's are trying to accept Video and Video NLE's are trying to boost their Audio performance. VEGAS is the only app that I am aware of (especially at this price) that can do both without a hiccup. I use VEGAS for both Audio and Video. I don't know all there is to know about VEGAS yet but I can tell you that since I only have to use the one NLE, I'm becoming a master. Once you really test it and unleash it's power hopefully you will agree that there is no NLE (audio or video) that can touch it. -- And yes I run ProTools & Avid. I'm a professional editor in Orange County, CA. I do both audio and video work in VEGAS. It's heaven sent.

I'm a professional audio editor and have been using Vegas/Sound Forge since the days of 4.5 and Vegas Pro. It is a slick tool and is used daily on both our AVIDs. I guess AVID Media Composer ships with Protools lite becasue the versions we have are not very versatile. If you want to see a really horrid audio mixing tool, have a look at Adobe's bastardization of Cakewalk, now known as Audition.

Peter

Geez... this has turned into more of a religious crusade than the Mac vs. PC nonsense!

Pardon me while I mute the audio on my Sony Hi-Def monitor so that I can concentrate better on my lip reading :)

You know I think this argument boils down to both sides need each other. I'm an audio guy first and moved to incorporate video.

The thing that audio guys cringe at are statements like "If it weren't for video, Vegas wouldn't be in existence" or "you owe us video guys for..." etc. Another burr is how many video only users consider Vegas a video only app. and get pissed if the upgrade is not geared to video entirely or at least majorly upgraded with video functionality.

Sure, humans are visual creatures superficially, especially males but even looking at this from a video standpoint, how many really want to read subtitles actually, no matter how good the visual is? How many would want to sit through a great movie on the video side with (use your imagination here) any number or horrible problems with the audio.

When it comes to sales, sure the consumer and even maybe the pro-sumer constitutes a big buck on the video end. Everyone's got a digital camera today and most had a Handycam years ago. How many "average Joe's" have a need for multi-track recording even on a basic level? If Vegas sells more units to those interested in video I could certainly understand that but the pro audio user was the base fro Vegas' multi-track foundation and it's evolution to the great audio video app. it is today.

There is a basis on both sides for Vegas' existence as it is today, a symbiotic relationship as it were. To say Vegas blew it because we didn't get all the video features we wanted and not recognize Vegas' roots as an audio app. first while the audio side from V3 to V4 was took a back seat is arrogant.

Sure our forum doesn't have the volume of posts yours does but we don't have the myriad of off topic, third party app. discussions or the general "coffee talk" that's typical over here. It's pretty much to the point at the audio forum. By virtue of that it's a friendlier couch here so there may be something to be said for that if that's important.

The point being, as I said, we need each other and should trust Sony/Madison to take the right steps in development. I don't see a disaster to date, besides, what choice do we have?

Bitching certainly doesn't work nor should it.

Just food for thought from someone who's seen both forums and uses the app. on both sides now.

MJ

MJ, Nicely put and you're right on, it's that arrogance that's been exhibited by a few users is why I made this post. When they can be called and proven wrong time and time again, maybe they'll be able to overcome that arrogance once and for all. I'm still waiting for, HPV to show me the sales numbers he's been spouting about.

Lammont Dennis,
a little history of Vegas for you, which I've been meaning to put a post up on the history of Vegas, to give some light on the Vegas path. Anyways, Vegas Audio and Vegas Video, where really not 2 seperate programs. In a marketing standpoint, yes. But if you bought Vegas Video, you got all the audio features that where in Vegas Audio. The ONLY difference between Vegas Audio 2.0 and Vegas Video 2.0, was that Vegas Video allowed you to have unlimited Video tracks and cost $100 more, while Vegas Audio only allowed 1 Video Track. Infact it was the same program so much, that if you entered a Vegas Video serial number when you installed it, then it showed that Vegas Video was installed. If you entered a Vegas Audio serial number into the same installation, it showed up as Vegas Audio on your PC. As an audio user, I was using Vegas "Video" for v2.0, because I didn't want to feel like I was limited, if I decided to do some Video work.