Vegas 5 outputs can they match the toaster

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/1/2004, 3:16 PM
I'm working for a church that has a videotoaster system and I am going to be putting Vegas 5 on an Inspiron 9100 for being able work on the projects away from the church. Problem is that my contractor at the church is psycho about quality though he outputs it via a single component cable over 100 feet to an overhead projector. Never the less, he has said that he will not accept work from a substandard system.

What is the quality compared to VT2 system? Can I add codecs that the VT system uses?

Are there numbers to compare raw data saying that Vegas 5 is able to compare?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BTW: The INSPIRON 9100 is a 3.2 Ghz. 800Mhz FSB, 512 MB Ram (to start out with, I'll up it if I need more but it was a 300 dollar difference for 1GB) 128MB Mobile Radeon 9700, and a 60GB 7200rpm HD but no separate drive for system.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 6/1/2004, 3:27 PM
Render the same set of cilps both on the Toaster and in Vegas, then hand them to him to do a blind A-B comparison. If he can identify the Toaster clips more than 60% of the time then he's got a valid point. He probably won't be able to though.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/1/2004, 3:51 PM
That's not how this guy works, he can't feel challenged, he has to be shown in a non-confrontational way.
vidiot57 wrote on 6/1/2004, 5:31 PM
Hello,

I have Vegas 5 and a VT3, and I jump between them all the time.. And quite frankly I doubt that he could tell the difference..If the video is being shoot on a DV camera.. Then using the component output on the toaster is really not making it any beter.. You still had to capture the footage using either firewire or the S-Input.. I would not hesitate to use Vegas5 along with the Toaster..

Mike
vidiot57 wrote on 6/1/2004, 5:31 PM
Hello,

I have Vegas 5 and a VT3, and I jump between them all the time.. And quite frankly I doubt that he could tell the difference..If the video is being shoot on a DV camera.. Then using the component output on the toaster is really not making it any beter.. You still had to capture the footage using either firewire or the S-Input.. I would not hesitate to use Vegas5 along with the Toaster..

Mike
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/1/2004, 9:01 PM
The answer is, Vegas will match/be superior to the Toaster.
You don't need to confront, you can gently show him a page curl rendered in both. Vegas will show no aliasing. This is one of my trade show demo 'tricks' to show where Vegas shines over other tools, particularly Premiere. Same works with stills in motion. Aliasing will give the tool away.
farss wrote on 6/1/2004, 10:26 PM
His biggest issue is that 100' of co-ax, there's probably so much HF loss that any aliasing wouldn't be noticable anyway.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/2/2004, 10:17 AM
I appreciate all the help but does anyone have the numbers that say it's able to do better.

And does anyone here use Boris Red 3GL? I was wondering if it's all it's website cracks it up to be.

Thanx all

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/2/2004, 10:24 AM
How could there be "numbers?" It's all relevant to output. In terms of numbers, show him that Vegas does 4:2:2 YUV, or 4:4:4 HD, or 24P etc all on the timeline. There is no number that can quantify the quality, that's an eye thing. If the footage originates on DV, there is simply no way in the world you can quantify the quality. It's going to take a look at footage done with both.
Take same footage, render page curl in Vegas and the Toaster.
If he can't see that difference, then you've got a lost cause anyway. Can't argue with a blind man that does video.
In terms of integrity, Vegas' codec will hold up BETTER than the Toaster if you're interested in color/quality accuracy over renders, but who's doing 50 renders of most anything anyway? If he's pushing you for numbers to quantify quality of output, he's completely lost and already fixed an opinion. It's like someone saying they want an AVID simply because they heard the brand name. Or asking for numbers as to why a snickers bar tastes better than a heath bar. In terms of installs, I don't have hard numbers, but you can bet your butt that there are a lot more currently used Vegas installs vs Toaster installs.
BJ_M wrote on 6/2/2004, 11:16 AM
"they want an AVID simply because they heard the brand name."

gee , where have I heard that before : )



but now saying - "oh, I have a sony pro video editing system" has a pleasant ring to it and can hold up very well ...




vidiot57 wrote on 6/2/2004, 12:23 PM
Hello,
One thing that you did not answer is how are you acquiring the video, Is it a DV camera,BetaCam, DigitalBeta ?? The Toaster is largely an analog device, unless you have an SDI card for it.. even if you use it for Firewire, it only inputs video via the firewire.. Currently there is no way to directly output video on the Toaster using firewire, it would have to go out either composite,S-Video or Component..Hence the toaster only advantage would be if you were using a very high end camera like DigitalBeta, and transferring using the SDI card(which is an option) otherwise there is no edge.. Like I said before if it with a DV camera, then there is no way that this person could be able to discern where the video was editied, no way!!

Spot is correct, there are not numbers..I have been doing Video work for about 13 years.. And I jump between the VT3 and Vegas all the time, and the quality is identical..

Mike
Jackie_Chan_Fan wrote on 6/2/2004, 12:40 PM
"That's not how this guy works, he can't feel challenged, he has to be shown in a non-confrontational way."

Uh.. Nice Freaking Church :) What church as a video toaster system? Are you working for Robert Tiltman?

hehe

Sounds like it.
DavidMcKnight wrote on 6/2/2004, 1:13 PM
...and with absolutely no basis in fact I say this :) It sounds to me like he may have a formed opinion already. Or maybe just resistant to change, or the "we're doing it all my way, period" type of person.
bStro wrote on 6/2/2004, 1:15 PM
Spot wrote:
Or asking for numbers as to why a snickers bar tastes better than a heath bar.

Trick question. The Heath is better...I'd say by a 30% margin, AT LEAST.

Rob
jetdv wrote on 6/2/2004, 1:21 PM
Trick question. The Heath is better...I'd say by a 30% margin, AT LEAST.

See... just proves Spot's point. In my opinion NEITHER ONE is even worth eating. Now a Kit Kat on the other hand....
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/2/2004, 2:17 PM
Obviously, neither of you have ever had Snickers Popables. They RULE! What's really fun during boring edit sessions and pre-renders is to bounce em' off my overhead cabinets or monitor, and try to catch them in my mouth. Heath and KitKat would shatter.
But KitKat would be my second choice. On the other hand, those lucky Euro folks have DAIM. I LOVE DAIM.
If you don't like DAIM, it's OK, you probably don't have any friends, either.
(Those that know DAIM know where this comes from)
busterkeaton wrote on 6/2/2004, 4:51 PM
I have both Vegas and a Toaster. Vegas is great for my video needs, DVD, WMV, etc, but it's terrible at English Muffins. The Toaster really brings out the nooks and crannies. With Vegas the nooks and crannies are soft and the dynamic range of the output is all off-whitish. With the Toaster you can get the crannies to be a real deep black.
VegasVidKid wrote on 6/2/2004, 4:55 PM
In a double-blind study, 8 out of 10 video experts preferred the output of Vegas to Video Toaster. After removing the blindfolds, they could not tell the difference.
busterkeaton wrote on 6/2/2004, 5:02 PM
How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.

Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
zcus wrote on 6/2/2004, 5:15 PM
Why not show him these postings??? That should back up your case.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/2/2004, 6:31 PM
Thanx I think? Has anyone seen these problems when they use it?

" With Vegas the nooks and crannies are soft and the dynamic range of the output is all off-whitish. With the Toaster you can get the crannies to be a real deep black."

Busterkeaton, is it very noticable?
MyST wrote on 6/2/2004, 6:34 PM
"Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."

I was just telling that to my cat the other day as he lay on my newspaper.

"Can't argue with a blind man that does video."--- Funny!
I saw a deaf AUDIO guy arguing with a blind video guy once though. Actually, it was one-sided. The blind video guy told him he was right at the very beginning of the argument, but the deaf man never heard that...

Mario
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/2/2004, 6:37 PM
Just to let you know we also output to independant DVD recorder DMRT-3040 from Panasonic via S-Vid and inputs that we use into the Toaster are S-Vid or DV and some component.

I get it already with the numbers thing by the way so we can drop that maybe.