Vegas 6 - Nested Projects playback really slow

.Alex wrote on 4/19/2005, 3:13 AM
Hi All,

Not sure if anyone else is experiencing this, but I have seperated my project out and created a master project that contains nested projects i.e. .veg files of different sections.

Each section plays fine (including all fx) when they are edited on their own (in their own instance of Vegas).

When they are all combined into a master project that contains only two tracks (one for video and one for audio) the playback is really bad with it skipping at least 10-20 frames at a time!

The Preview window is set to be the same size and quality as the preview window when editing individual projects.

Kind of defeats the object of nesting projects if the playback is worse than having all the footage in one project!

Be interesting to hear anyone elses thoughts, it maybe that I am doing something wrong.

Cheers

.Alex

Comments

.Alex wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:14 PM
Just bumping this up to see if anyone else is experiencing this.

When I play my section in Vegas I get a palyback rate of 25fps in the preview window. When I include the .veg in another project (with nothing else in the project) I get a playback rate of about 4fps!

The interesting thing is it doesn't matter how big or small the preview window is, it still plays back at 4fps.

I tried the same thing with a less fx hungry .veg and that playbacks really well, but still not as good as when it is in it's own instance of Vegas.

Is this expected behaviour?

I was really hoping that the nested projects was going to make managing big projects so much easier, but it looks like I'm still going to have to render the individual projects to get a good playback in the master project.

Sony can you comment on this?

fultro wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:31 PM
And here is another way to look at this:
I put a (9-trkVid + 1-trkAud) VEG file on the timeline in V6 that plays back similiarly as in V5.
Drag the same VEG onto the same timeline a little later in time and the playback is way worse than the same (but articulated) VEG earlier in the timeline ...
Can someone please explain this - I know that Vegas is creating some kind of preview prerender for this nested VEG but this is pretty useless as a working prerender - is there any way to improve this situation?

David
Nat wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:36 PM
This is a known issue. The problem is that the nested veg files gets "rendered" as full frame, full quality. Open the nested project in it's own instance, go to properties and set the render quality to draft, see if it gets better on the main veg file.
This should get fixed.
Nat wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:42 PM
Another workaround that should really speed things up, set the nested file project size (in it's own instance) to half the resolution.

I know it sucks but at least it'll go faster.
Once you're done editing, set all the sub veg files to their normal resolution and render out.
fultro wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:42 PM
Even before I try this workaround, I would like to ask what you mean by "this is a known issue"?
As far as I am concerned this was not a "known issue" when this product was advertised to me via e-mail nor was it a known issue to various early reviewers who extolled the wonders of this upgrade, including this very feature that I was most interested in .. I would sure like to hear from Sony on this....

David
Nat wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:45 PM
Known issue means Sony is aware of this and working on a fix.
.Alex wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:48 PM
Thanks for the pointers Nat; gave it a go, but it really doesn't seem to make much difference.

I might get a few extra fps on some bits of footage, but the majority of it still runs around the 4-5fps.

Hope this all gets fixed real soon as I'm a bit stuffed on my current project with no Film Effects and no nested projects!
Nat wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:51 PM
Also, if you're stuff is generated media make sure the nested project is set to progressive, that will help out. So to recap, in the nested veg files, set the properties to :

1- The lowest rendering quality you're willing to work at (I use draft)
2- Lower the resolution ( 360*240 is a good idea)
3- Set the project to progressive
rmack350 wrote on 4/19/2005, 8:54 PM
Here's another thing I was playing with just before reading this post.

If you take that nested veg project and render it (I can hear the groans already) try out a new feature. Check the "Save project as path reference in rendered media" box.

Now when you drop the rendered file in your master project you'll have the option of right-clicking the event and opening the source project. Yes, it isn't a nested veg file but it's real close and I think it'll perform better.

There are problems with this, of course. I'd rather drop the veg file on the timeline and have it automatically render in the background. That way I could just keep working.

Rob Mack
fultro wrote on 4/19/2005, 9:11 PM
"Known issue means Sony is aware of this and working on a fix" - but somehow forgot to inform the consumer in their blitz advertising? I guess I still expect truth in advertising - "...the whole truth..." that is
As far as I can tell, until this is fixed (all these workarounds not-with-standing), "Nested Veg Files" is a beta nongrade
David


.Alex wrote on 4/19/2005, 9:22 PM
From reading everyone's comments I think that my expectations of nested projects is correct.

I was expecting to be able to create a complex sequence or composite in a project, then just drop it in other projects wherever I needed it, whilst still mainting the same playback performance, i.e. the whole nested feature was supposed to do away with the need to render out a segment prior to adding to another project.

Like everyone else I'm amazed that such a "big new feature" slipped through the beta testing.

Maybe something went wrong on the release and the wrong version of the code was built?

I wonder if the version that Sony are using to demo at NAB has the same problems????
rmack350 wrote on 4/19/2005, 9:37 PM
I'd hope that if all you did was drop a veg file into a project, and if nothing else at all was in the project, then it'd play exactly as it would in the original project.

On the other hand, If the nested veg contained 7 tracks and then you put it on one track of a master that also had a bunch of tracks, then I wouldn't expect much.

Regardless, I expected they'd do more with the feature than they did. This forum's become like a roomfull of wet cats.

Rob Mack
fultro wrote on 4/19/2005, 9:45 PM
Do you mean by "Webcats" those of us who expect a product to live up to it's advertising - and then express our disappointment? Is Vegas a religion or a tool - a tool that should do what it says it will do?
We are acting like cats because we just shelled out $$$ for something that doesnt do what it should do given the advertising ?
David
.Alex wrote on 4/19/2005, 11:11 PM
Yeah Rob, agree that if you dropped a nested .veg into a big project then I'd expect performance would be down a bit.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 4/20/2005, 12:13 AM
There was very little advertising for this at this point - what ads are you refering to? Or are you refering to those that were speculating on the product, but had no official statements? Just curious.

Dave
fultro wrote on 4/20/2005, 5:42 AM
Actually, I stand corrected on the advertising issue - looking back Sony did not directly mention nesting to me in their e-mail. However it is in their release notes. And on this forum both DSE and Charlie White had early reviews that were referenced in which nesting was talked about - I won't say hyped - but my hopes had been so high for this feature that it never occured to me upon seeing it as a feature that it would perform this badly.
Trying to look at it positively now, I see it as one way to do batch rendering - a feature that has been needed for a while anyway seeing as how the script they provide for batches doesn't seem to accomodate multiple vegs - someone please correct me if I am wrong about this..

David
Nat wrote on 4/20/2005, 6:06 AM
fultro, I suggest waiting for 6b. I guess it's the price to pay when you're an early adopter...