Vegas 6 Problems - Veerrry Interesting!

VOGuy wrote on 5/24/2005, 2:17 PM
Since Installing Vegas 6, I've had all kinds of problems - not just with Vegas, but after running Vegas, my system would become quite unstable. Things were okay before, with an occaisional crash, but after installing V6 I would get system freezes and crashes frequently when rendering, and often a couple of hours after closing down Vegas.

The worst crashes, where the system would simply shut down and reboot, were beginning to drive me crazy. After each crash XP would attempt to find the cause. Each time it listed a different reason.

1) Device driver error - Windows recommended installing the latest drivers - I did that. No change.

2) Memory error - MS directed me to a download for a memory checking program. Ran it, showed no problems.

3) Norton Internet Security. MS did not mention the product by name, but it was pretty clear what product they were talking about. I decided it was time to re-install XPPro (UGH) Spent 12 hours on that and I'm still not done. Still had crashes!!!!

Went to my friendly, reliable computer dealer - the people I bought the machine from. Explained to the salesclerk that I wanted to swap out all my memory (2GB) with a new set. (Now I'm getting a bit desparate, but I'm willing to try anything!). Just then the owner of the store, who happened to be walking by and listening to my dilema, interrupts. " I just went through the same thing with my Son's computer. He's studying Film at Hollywood Film School, and his machine kept crashing."

He went on to explain that his son started with 1-Gig memory on his computer, then later expanded to 2-gig. "It was the second Gig of RAM which started all the trouble. I replaced it with new memory, and it still didn't fix it. I finally replaced both the original and second-gig of RAM, and that fixed it." he reported.

Similar story here. Had one gig for over a year, Expanded to 2-Gig, a few months ago. There seems to be a need to have the same brand and even close serial numbers for all the RAM in your computer. I had heard this before, but presumed that if it passed an extensive memory testing program, all should be well.

Anyway, I switced out all the computer's memory with the same brand of memory, with similar serial numbers. It's been 24 hours, so far, and I've not had a singel problem with V6 rendering (or anything else, for that matter!).

I'll let you know if there are any further developments.

Travis - Travis Voice-Over Services
www.Announcing.biz



Comments

farss wrote on 5/24/2005, 2:28 PM
Having worked with computers designed for 99.99% availability I'm amazed that there isn't more memory related issues with PCs, well perhaps there is but no one ever correctly diagnoses them.
I think V6 which can run the CPU / memory at 100% for extended periods is going to require a few people to fix some latent problems in their hardware.
I just hope that we all have the persistence to actually track down the problem rather than write off Vegas as being 'buggy'.
Bob.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 5/24/2005, 2:53 PM
The other week I upgraded my main editing PC from 1GB to 2GB... and in doing so destroyed my CPU. I don't know if it was my clunky hands... but it seems to me you really HAVE to force the chips into their slots.

The Motherboard seemed to have all the usual supports/screws but that was not enough to prevent some damage of some sort to the CPU. After powering up, my quaint ASUS motherboard shouts a helpful error message through the speakers "System CPU Test Failed". Taking out the CPU and re-seating it didn't help.

I had to buy a new CPU chip.

That's a lesson I'll not forget. Most expensive 1GB RAM upgrade I've had.
GlennChan wrote on 5/24/2005, 3:06 PM
You could test your computer for hardware instability issues with Prime95.

It will find CPU errors quickly. It'll also find RAM problems, but you might need to leave it running for a little while (i.e. overnight).

The more RAM you add, the less stable it becomes (due to electrical/termination issues or something). This is not to say it will cause instability, but just that you have less headroom to work with. In some cases you might have a bad or marginal stick of RAM, which is made worse by having all your motherboard's slots filled. It's this reason why some motherboard/chipsets are limited to 4 banks of RAM.

2- For best performance with chipsets that support dual channel (i.e. some but not all AMD, Intel, mac/G5), get pairs of the exact same model+capacity RAM.

3- AMD64 based systems may not like 4 sticks of double-sided/banked RAM? Not sure about this, but read your motherboard's manual. It may have a RAM compatibility chart thing.

4- In some cases, RAM will be marginal and pass memory tests like memtest86 (similar to MS' memory diagnostic tool). However, when it heats up (i.e. your computer is rendering) it will get flakey. May cause crashes every few hours.

Sometimes a stick of RAM will go bad that way.
MH_Stevens wrote on 5/24/2005, 8:32 PM
If Vegas6 can use memory to 100% why is my maximum memory usage as reported by the performance tab on Task Manager, 461MB when I have IGB of RAM? Is Vegas not set to use all the memory it can?


Mike
ro_max wrote on 5/24/2005, 9:06 PM
No, IMO it is not. You can specifiy how much RAM Vegas is supposed to use for RAM renders. Also, with the new multi-threading engine, Vegas 6 could work the CPU(s) at 100% and perhaps also the main memory. Running the system full-throttle for extended periods of time may also cause all kinds of heat-related issues, especially when using inadequate cooling and/or lower-grade components.
BillyBoy wrote on 5/24/2005, 9:18 PM
Memory NEVER should have to be forced in! Memory cards come with some kind of indictor to indicate the proper way its suppose to fit in the socket. Assume you didn't forget to undo the locking device at either end. The idea is position the card over the socket GENTLEY push into place and if needed rock back and forth till properly seated and it should go in with mimial force.Then of course there's always static electricity. That will zap your CPU.
farss wrote on 5/24/2005, 9:32 PM
Comsic rays and alpha particles from the uranium in the lead in the solder are the main cause of random errors in RAM. Most RAM doesn't have parity bits so if a bit gets flipped there's nothing to detect it, not that Windoz or any common OS knows handle handle a parity error anyway.
ECC memory improves the situation but it costs and you need mobos that support it. Also the ECC logic can slow memory down.
Bob.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 5/24/2005, 10:55 PM
"Force" is a subjective term. Of course I know the right way around to put in RAM.... Thanks for the tips.

Here are some instructions provided on several sites for how to install RAM..

. Push firmly on the edge of the chip to insert it in the slot, (the book says push gently, but I have found out that gently doesn't work. It has to be firm pressure; please do not tap with hammer or anything, just push it in.) If possible, try to put your hand on the opposite side of the mother board for additional support. If you push memory in and the board bends too much, you could cause tiny fractures in your motherboard.

and

Use your thumbs to press the module into the slot. Press hard! It takes about 20 lb of pressure to get the module properly inserted in the slot. When you hear a "click" and both side ejector clips snap up around the module, you know it is installed correctly.
Grazie wrote on 5/24/2005, 11:49 PM

"Comsic rays and alpha particles from the uranium in the lead in the solder are the main cause of random errors in RAM."

. .er.. . Bob? Sometimes you really scare the pants off me . . . HOW on Earth did you discover that one?!?! I'm totally in awe of your Cosmic Knowledge . .. Now, Bob, - CONCENTRATE - what's gonna win the 3:30 at Kempton Park Race Track? Hmmm?

. . I'm not worthy . . I'm not worthy!


Grazie

tazio wrote on 5/25/2005, 12:17 AM
I'm going back to chisselling hieroglyphs onto a stone - this is all getting too complicated for a simple carbon-based life-form like myself.

Bob, you need to get out more LOL


Phil
VOGuy wrote on 5/26/2005, 11:17 PM
Update:

Well, it's been two days, and since replacing RAM I can't make the system crash! This afternoon, I was rendering HD video, had IE and Outlook open, and was recording audio (Through a Firewire interface) with Adobe Audition (A known buggy program subject to frequent crashes) all at the same time.

If you're having problems with Vegas 6, try replacing all your system RAM with the same kind. A very simple (and expensive) solution!

Travis
www.Announcing.biz
MRe wrote on 5/27/2005, 12:17 AM
Dzeesh guys... I read this thread through twice and I'm still unsure whether this is for real or not.

Two things to remember when adding memory or any other new components to your system (ok. perhaps three):

1. backup your system or make restore point (check help for making restore point in Windows)
2. check that your power supply unit (PSU) can handle new load. If you have bought a packaged PC (i.e. not built it yourself from components) most probably the PSU is designed to handle only those components which were included in the package. Bigger PSU -> more $$$ -> less profit for manufacturer
3. check that the memory your are installing is of same type and with same refresh-rate as already existing one. If you are installing dual-channel memory, buy one (i.e. dual-channel pair, not just two DIMMS). No need to have "consequent serial numbers" or same manufacturer (except the latter one might be a good move)

Hope this helps.
RexA wrote on 5/27/2005, 1:17 AM
Travis,

Interesting about the timing of all this. For a long time I was seeing random crashes from Firefox. I assumed there was some kind of unresolved bug in the code since I wasn't seeing crashes except when running FF and only occasionally. The last weeks or so I had been debugging after crashes and seeing very similar stack traces, so still thought it was software.

The day you posted your message I started having issues where firefox started crashing every few minutes. Software doesn't suddenly get worse, so I began to feel it must be memory or cpu.

I found a memory test at microsoft. It makes a bootable CD. At first no problems, but then I ran extended tests and started seeing a weird failure where the test started printing errors and I had to reboot to regain control.

I opened my PC (desktop) and removed my two memory sticks. I dusted off the connectors and fans and then re-inserted the memory exchanging slots. Since then I've seen no further errors. I assume some kind of connector issue.

Funny about the timing of my sudden crisis relative to your problems.
Xander wrote on 5/27/2005, 6:10 AM
A lot of lock-ups are cause by heat and dust inside the case.

During rendering, the CPU heats up a lot due to the load on it and good ventilation is needed to keep it cool. A friend recently had lock-ups on his PC and when he opened up the case, found that one the the CPU fan clips had come loose. Thus, the CPU was not being cooled effectively and locked-up after 2 hours of rendering once it got too hot.

Secondly, he blew out all the dust from the motherboard and fans. Dust can cause shorts and can impact cooling fan performance.

All worked fine once those two issues had been sorted out and his machine is now running perfectly. He initially thought he had a virus.
riredale wrote on 5/27/2005, 6:16 PM
Over the past 7 years or so that I've been heavily involved with PCs, I've had 0 hard drive, motherboard, or CPU failures, 2 memory stick failures, and 1 IDE cable failure, and 1 12v Molex Y-cable failure.

I may be a bit anal but I've installed several free utilities such as RamPage and Motherboard Monitor to keep track of what's happening inside the beige box (it's a homebuilt rig). I've learned, for example, that my CPU idles at about 55C, and gradually rises to about 61C when rendering MPEG2. If I let it get to 64C then half thet time the PC will seize and I have to reboot.

I've also discovered that the PC makes an excellent dust collector, almost as good as a vacuum cleaner. Every few months I notice the CPU temps creeping up slowly; if I go in and do a thorough blowout on the CPU heatsink the temps drop back about 5C.

BTW, memory usage and CPU load are two entirely different animals. If your system has a temperature problem then doing a CPU-intensive task such as MPEG2 rendering will be a good test; if some part of your RAM is bad then running a RAM diagnostic will uncover it.
riredale wrote on 5/27/2005, 6:19 PM
Stupid Board. Won't let me delete a double-post.
Sidecar wrote on 5/31/2005, 9:45 PM
I had constant crashing problems with my Intel P875PBZ 3.0gHz motherboard. This last weekend was a nighmare. Crashed probably 30 times.

Was just about to wipe the C: drive and reinstall Windows or take the thing in and tell them (again) to replace the motherboard or RAM but decided to update the BIOS first.

Amazingly, it's stable again, at least for the last couple of hours.

Before that, I pulled the two 512mb matched sticks of Kingston RAM, switched slots, vacuumed out all the dust. It still crashed. I then pulled one stick and tried working with a single 512mb stick. Still crashed.

So I went to Intel's site and downloaded a BIOS updater. Was afraid to run it because I was sure it would crash during the install and render the machine dead. (Intel offers a BIOS recovery version for just such an eventuality.)

The updater ran flawlessly and now the machine's been stable for hours. Sounds like a small test sample, but it had gotten to the point where it was crashing every few minutes no matter what I was doing.

Perhaps the constant Windows auto updates began conflicting with the BIOS. Who knows?

Hopefully, it will be okay.
JJKizak wrote on 6/1/2005, 6:05 AM
On your Intel 875 don't put in over 2 gig ram as it becomes unstable.
Well mine does and I can't wait to get a new board and it won't be Intel.

JJK