Vegas 6 Render Errors

Shane Jensen wrote on 6/1/2005, 7:46 PM
I have this issue that's very troubling to me. I have Vegas 6.0 that I upgraded to from 4.0 in April. I never had this issue with 4.0, only with my new 6.0. I have tried uninstalling 6.0 and reinstalling it and that doesn't help the problem. This is all after installing a fresh new install of Windows XP Pro after a fresh reformat of my hard drive.

I have this render issue that only happens when I use lower bit rates when rendering to DVD NTSC Mpeg 2. When I say lower I mean anything lower than the maximum bit rate. I usually only render things at 9800 for videos that are an hour or less. I have no trouble rendering at those higher or highest bit rates as they all render flawlessly. However, when I try to render anything in the 7000s with CBR I get an error. This is extremely frustrating. The error message reads:

An error occurred creating the media file filename.mpg.
The reason for the error could not be determined.

If I use VBR and have the bit rates set to say 7000 to 7200 it renders fine. I have a video that I edited for my friend Mike that's one hour and twenty minutes in length. This is an edited down version from a video tape that contained one hour and forty minutes of videos. The first time I rendered Mike's revision I used a few bit rates around 7300 at VBR and using Two Pass. It rendered fine with no problems. The file size was slightly too big than I wanted it, so I decided to bring down the bit rate to 7000 using CBR to see how that does. About twenty minutes into the render it stopped with the above mentioned error message. Very strange.

I rendered the same video for myself without all the stuff I edited out on Mike's version and spit up into two files so that I could render them at the maximum bit rate for quality which would mean I would have them on two separate DVDs. Those edited fine at 9800 using CBR. However, I then wanted to make another revision for myself where I would render the whole video (nothing edited out like on Mike's version), which is an hour and forty minutes long, together to fit onto one DVD. I decided to use a bitrate somewhere in the 5000s using VBR (I forget the exact numbers) and tried using the Two Pass option. Rendered the whole video just fine in the first pass, the second pass it stopped and gave the above error message on the second pass somewhere in the forty minute point of the video. I don't understand it. It's not just this video, this has happened with other videos I had been working on in the past.

I have made another similar thread about this over a month ago when this first happened: http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=386145

Can anyone help me with this issue? It would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/1/2005, 8:18 PM
Shane,
First things first, have you downloaded the V6.0b patch?
Have you registered the MPEG plug?
Heat playing any kind of an issue in the render?
Yoyodyne wrote on 6/1/2005, 8:29 PM
You know - I'm having the exact same problem on two seperate machines with Vegas 6b. It only seems to happen when I encode to mpeg 2 with CBR, VBR works fine.

Shane Jensen wrote on 6/1/2005, 8:54 PM
Yes, I have the latest patch, V6.0b. Yes, I have the MPEG plug registered. Actually it never prompted me to register the MPEG plugin so I'm assuming it's already registered when I registered my new Vegas 6.

No, heat is not an issue. I have many fans in my computer case and my room is very cool right now with a window fan going in my window. I'm on Long Island and it's been very cool these past few days. My room is about 70 degrees or less right now.
Shane Jensen wrote on 6/2/2005, 6:43 AM
No further ideas, huh?
Shane Jensen wrote on 6/13/2005, 12:06 PM
I'm bumping this because I still have no answers that will help me and I want to tackle this problem. Nothing that anyone else suggested worked. Please help.
Yoyodyne wrote on 6/13/2005, 7:36 PM
Hey shane - I heard there is an update to DVD architect 3 that might solve this problem - worth checking out - have not had time to test myself.
Shane Jensen wrote on 6/13/2005, 10:58 PM
Yes, I got the update for DVD Architect. That's not where I'm having the issue. The problem is rendering in VEGAS 6.0b. If it's a bit rate lower than 7,000 or so, I get an error on CBR. On VBR I get the error when I'm rendering at 5,000 or so when using the two pass option.
cyvideo wrote on 6/14/2005, 6:28 AM
Shane,

Tthis may or may not give you some pointers.

We have just had a heap of render problems with V6 that we never had with V5d. In our case it was rendering to standard PAL widscreen DV. Part way through the renders V6 would hang with the same 'The reason for the error could not be determined.' dialogue. In our case we had the 'Dynamic RAM preview' setting set to 1gig as we have two gig of ram on this particular unit. Here is what I have found to date.

If the 'dynamic ram' figure is set high in Vegas 6b it starts to hog all available memory when it renders. Observing Task Manager you could see the memory allocated to V6 go through the roof as it rendered through the timeline. In our case it chewed up 1.6 gig of memory then hung with the 'The reason for the error could not be determined.' dialogue. It also used anywhere between 50-100 percent CPU overhead.

To confirm this was the problem I tried again. Same timeline, same spot, same memory useage and 'bang', it hung again. Next time around I dropped the dynamic ram setting to 16mb as was the default when V6 was installed (thanks to Ed T on the Cow forum for this suggestion). In all the tests I left the 'render threads' at '4 'which again was the default for the multi-threading setting. This time the memory usage finally stopped climbing at around 400mb and stabilised around this figure. The end result was that the render went right through without any problem and appeared to quicker up to the point where V6 had previously hung.

The strange thing is that copying the entire timeline into V5d and using the EXACT same settings, but with 1 gig of dynamic ram preview selected, and doing a render the results were:

1. a quicker render,
2. a lower memory useage, around 300mb average,
3. lower CPU overhead, around 50-53 percent max

There appear to be some unresolved issues with the re-written render engine in V6. Alex Dolgin posting on the Cow Vegas forum mentioned some problems with MPEG2 renders so you are not alone.

In fact it's not only while rendering that V6 has memory hogging problems. In our case If the dynamic ram figure is left at 1 gig and you continue to edit eventually all available memory gets 'hogged' and 'poof' V6 hangs again. Set it low and there seems to be no problem... Other than you can only get a couple of seconds build to a 'dynamic ram preview'.

So for the time being it's back to V5.0d. We have rendered out over seventy one hour weekly TV shows with various V5 varients and have had nil render problems. I Guess Sony still have work to do on V6!

Hope this may have helped, good luck.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
Shane Jensen wrote on 6/14/2005, 1:09 PM
Thank you so much for your reply, Chris. I will try that later when I get home from work and see what happens. I have 1GB of RAM in my unit at home, but I never messed with any dynamic RAM settings in V6. This problem only started after I installed V6 and never had this problem with my previous version of V4 (I skipped V5, just never got it). Yes, on the clips where I got the error, it was always at the same spot on re-attempts.

I hope this works, I really really hope this work. I'm crossing my fingers. Where can I find these dynamic RAM settings?
cyvideo wrote on 6/14/2005, 6:50 PM
Shane ~

Under 'options', 'preferences' and then under the 'video' tab.

Next time you try a render have Task Manager open (Ctrl, Alt, Delete), click on the 'processes' tab then click on the 'mem usage' tab to bring Vegas up near the top of the visible list of processes and watch what happens. I would be interested to see if you have a problem with memory usage going up and up. The chances are if it does start to climb without stabilising during the render it may hang again. If this is what happens, well... I don't have an answer yet.

Either way post back as the more info there is about this render issue the more chances are that someone might work out a solution. Maybe even Sony :-)

Good luck!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
Shane Jensen wrote on 6/14/2005, 9:40 PM
I just checked my V6 settings and the dynamic RAM settings are already at 16MB. I guess that's not the problem then. I haven't rendered anything yet because I do not yet have a project to render at this time. Next time I do I will bring up the memory usage tap to see what happens.
AndyMac wrote on 6/15/2005, 4:14 PM
I'm gonna add my 2 cents and say I'm having very similar render problems with MPEG2 renders.
Hopefully if enough noise is created about this very real problem, then a fix or workaround might be found.

Andy Mac
ForumAdmin wrote on 6/16/2005, 6:54 AM
Installing the DVD Architect 3.0a update (available on our website) will also install an updated MPEG-2 encoder, the components of which will be used by all of our MPEG capable apps, including Vegas 6. Even if you did not purchase DVD Architect 3, installing the trial version will get these new MPEG-2 components loaded on your system and it may help solve your MPEG-2 rendering issues.

Shane Jensen wrote on 6/16/2005, 7:23 AM
I hope that's true as I've installed DVD Architect 3.0a sometime last week or the week before, whenever that update came out. I can't remember if my last render with an error was before or after that install. I'll have to try it out again and see. I'll report back here whether it worked or not.
Shane Jensen wrote on 6/22/2005, 6:35 AM
Well, I said I would report back here and here I am. The ForumAdmin is right, since I've installed DVDA3.0a I haven't had any render issues. I rendered out two videos with a lower bitrate without getting that error. However, I had rendered those out using progressive and have not yet tried rendering them out with bottom field interlacing yet since the update. I'm not using progressive anymore because it's not quite as sharp as the bottom field first, so I still have to try that one.

This is good, keep up the good work Sony.
vitalforce2 wrote on 6/22/2005, 7:16 AM
I'm having the render hang on a 90 minute timeline with eight nested veg. projects strung end to end. I have DVDA3.0a installed and yet it has consistently hung between halfway and 2/3 through the project, both with 6.0a, 6.0b and with DVDA3.0 and 3.0a. Had to cancel a meeting with an editor tonight who was going help us decide whether to lock picture.

Anyone know if the timeline events that contain nested projects can be dropped on a Vegas 5.0d timeline?
JohnnyRoy wrote on 6/22/2005, 7:40 AM
> Anyone know if the timeline events that contain nested projects can be dropped on a Vegas 5.0d timeline?

No you can’t. But what you can do is render the nested veg files to AVI and then go into the media pool of the master project and replace the veg media with the AVI media in the media pool. (just right-click on the media in the media pool and select the Replace... menu item) Then you can copy and paste the timeline onto Vegas 5.

Had a similar problem last week. I was rendering a photo montage project that was six (6) nested veg files and the render to MPEG2 got to 81% and failed with a read error right in the middle of the 5th veg file. Since the render took 5+ hrs and I didn’t have time to kick another one off and have it fail, I resorted to rendering each of the veg files to an AVI file and then dropping the 6 AVI files on the timeline and rendering to MPEG2 that way (which worked).

I am not sure if it is a nest veg render problem or an MPEG2 render problem. I saved the dump before Vegas disappeared if anyone from Sony is interested in looking at it. It was read error and after I pressed OK, Vegas just disappeared from memory.

~jr
Coursedesign wrote on 6/22/2005, 8:28 AM
the render to MPEG2 got to 81% and failed with a read error

Are you sure your CPU is cool enough on long renders?

The symptoms described would be consistent with overheating, which is of course most likely during a long render when the CPU is consuming max. power.

The quickest help for this may be to remove the CPU cooler and replace the factory gunk with Arctic Silver Thermal Paste. This conducts the CPU's heat to the heatsink much more effectively.

Temperature differences of 7C and beyond have been measured, which may be enough to take you into safe territory with uninterrupted renders.

Arctic Silver is available at CompUSA, Fry 's and many other computer stores, and of course online. I wouldn't dream of building a machine without it today.

There are other brands, but reviews have measured better results with this particular one. Be sure to remove the old Intel gunk thoroughly, this is important (just see the instructions in the package).
.
vitalforce2 wrote on 6/22/2005, 11:48 AM
Maybe looking at improved cooling will help. I know I could render to AVIs, etc. (thanx for the response JohnnyRoy) but I just hated to lose that 4:2:2 colorspace render that Spot speaks about when taking color corrected footage from veg straight to MPEG-2.
vitalforce2 wrote on 6/22/2005, 2:26 PM
One other question: It's suggested that having too much RAM set aside for dynamic RAM could contribute to the problem. I have Boris FX and have been told to zero out the dynamic RAM. Should not having any dynamic RAM set aside, have an impact on rendering?
JohnnyRoy wrote on 6/22/2005, 2:46 PM
> Are you sure your CPU is cool enough on long renders?

I rendered it overnight so I woke up to the error. Next time I’ll have to monitor the temps and see if that was it. I’m already using arctic silver but it I’m only using the stock cooler from Intel. It may be time to invest in a Zalman. ;-)

~jr
johnmeyer wrote on 6/22/2005, 3:00 PM
I have been doing some testing on similar problems (render hangs).

Question: Have any of you used -- anywhere in your problem projects -- the "Min and Max" fX? I may very well have created a pathological (i.e., one of a kind) case, but at least with one particular project this did appear to cause a problem similar to what is being reported here. This problem was not corrected with the DVDA 3.0a update, because that update only addressed an MPEG rendering issue.