Vegas 8b wishes... again..

DJPadre wrote on 12/11/2007, 5:12 PM

Proper HDV capture which doesnt mussfire scene detection.
Proper HDV capture which doesnt write a new file halfway through a capture for the hell of it..
Capture straight to Cineform. I know this is available through 3rd party, but to save the rigmorale, just let us run vidcap and allow us ot set our own file source types, and output types. A realtime MPG capture tool would also be beneficial. hell, consumer programs like Pinnacle Studio can captre mpg, why cant Vegas

NEW slowmotion engine... as it stands vegas only works well with interlaced footage.. always has.. but with progressive you can forget it..
We need a decent slowmotion enine with proper interpolation of frames. Dynapels slowmotion is a good example, however, on extended slowmo's edging gets a little flaky as its a little "too" accurate with interpolation
Premiere has dealt with this issue and now has probably one of the best slowmo engines on the market

Pan and crop lock tool.. find a point in pan and crop and mark it.
Now cycle through the clip and adjust that marker to a point on the frame. This would be a poor mans stabiliser but hey , it would work.
Better yet find a lock point, then a XY point on the actual frame and lock it. Then vegas can create KF within that clip to ensure that the point remains locked to that point of the frame using contrast or luminance as a reference. Then allow us to set a theshold as to how it will respond when seeing this in motion.
Voila, theres your stabiliser

Instead of F, how about XY arrows in pan and crop. This would save having to cycle through the X,Y and XY buttons.
I also want ot see the Ruler in Pan and Crop returned. This alowed us to scroll as far as we needed without zooming in and out of the workspace. As it stands to move up and down a whole frame, we have to zoom out reframe, then zoom back in to tweak..
Tedious

Copy and paste event attributes. When pasting, offer a choice of WHICH attributes to copy over ( i did a post about this ages ago)

NEW migration/preset tools.
Let us export our custom project, render, pan and crop, and filter preset settings. As it stands, we can only export filter chains which doesnt do much. The only other option is to create a myriad of Vegs, with generated media (as a source) with presets already laid out.
Then transfer that veg to a new machine or new install and copy those preset settings to the new machine.
Tedious

PAUSE friggin render... how many bloody times have i needed to pause the render its not funny...

Render frame count...
like most other apps..i want to see frame 234562 of 506060 counting down/up

Click white balance filter.. enough said..
The CC's just dont cut it as there is ALWAYS a sligfht shift which then forces you to use levels for the fine tuning of a WB or multicam colour matching.
Click on red match, voila,
click o blue match voila
click on green mattch voila...
Hell Edius/Canopus storm FX has had colour match and WB correction now for what? 5yrs? Maybe more??

Thats it, rant over..

Comments

bruceo wrote on 12/11/2007, 6:37 PM

DITTO! Especially on HDV capture!

Chienworks wrote on 12/11/2007, 8:04 PM

Just curious, since we've been through this issue at length before and i was the biggest supporter of the idea ... but now why do you need to pause a render? I see no need for this anymore with today's faster computers.

I would like the ability to pick up and continue an interrupted render. That would be a life saver. But pausing? Nope, no need at all now.

DJPadre wrote on 12/11/2007, 8:19 PM

i guess its much of a muchness chien
I mean les say yorr working and a storm is brewing and your worrid about power spikes (power surge protectors dont always work) , you can pause your render and go back to it when your done.

the other option, as you mentioned, would be to go back to an existing render upon start up or what have you.
Its not about CPU grunt or what have you, its about data and system integrity.

As for capture, ive said this before, but considering firwire is capable of up to 400mbps, i dont see why we cannot capture more than 1 deck at a time?
I mean canopus Storm 2 and other cards used to do this whereby we'd hok up 3 units and capture 3hrs every hour.
I understnd that were moving away from a tape based acquisition, but lets face it, Vegas and Sony are still kinds for HDV editing considering Sonys latest push for HDV cameras.
I dont see HDV going anywhere soon, and as tape archival is a requirement of the HDV standard, then were stuck with tape till HDV is superceeded (hopefully by AVC Intra)

In any case, capturing from more than 1 source at a time would be benefical to many people im sure.... be it HDV or DV...

Its been done.. canopus did it, and apparently Scenelysier live does it as well, although i cant get that working to capture 1 stream, let alone 3 or 4 or 5 (got 5 decks/cameras here)

Terje wrote on 12/12/2007, 1:14 PM

I mean les say yorr working and a storm is brewing and your worrid about power spikes (power surge protectors dont always work) , you can pause your render and go back to it when your done

Since this would require you shut down the computer during the rendering pause, I am sure you will never get this feature. It would be a little hard to implement since Vegas would have to save state to disk after you press the save button, and that would take a bit of engineering to get working.

I am quite positive this is not supported in most consumer or prosumer video editing software. There is no market at all for this requirement.

Chienworks wrote on 12/12/2007, 3:06 PM

Interestingly enough i can already do this on my laptop simply by closing the lid. Windows takes care of everything for me. When i open it up and press the power button i'm right back rendering exactly where it left off.

So here's a good experiment for me to try tonight ... can i get Windows to do a hibernate on my desktop? If so, that'll do it all.

DJPadre wrote on 12/12/2007, 10:57 PM

Chien. you hit the nail on the head mate..

one thing about hybernate though, is that its abotu 1.5gb worth of active state data, which i dont know it would respond.
In any case, you can hybernate your desktop, but everytime ive tried it, ive killed the OS and have had to reboot anyway..

wierd.. i think its my mobo that kills the wondows hybernate mode.. not sure.

kb_de wrote on 12/12/2007, 11:58 PM

what troubles me till now is that the audio bus doesnt work properly in 5.1 surround mode. it shows only the front meter but not the other, like the first version of v7
and nobody knows what time they will correct this.

malowz wrote on 12/13/2007, 4:59 PM

MUTTLEY wrote on 12/13/2007, 5:17 PM

MOTION TRACKING !!!

- Ray
www.undergroundplanet.com

DJPadre wrote on 12/13/2007, 8:30 PM

1 - "Plugin v2.0" , a.k.a. new architecture for plugins, keeping old one of course. boris users will give a kiss to SCS.

2 - "Real Playback Bufering", like edius. much better. vegas just does not know how to get something from a hard disk

3 - "Enhanced Preview", vegas i believe, use GDI to draw video on preview. this use too much CPU and causes tearing. an option for Overlay/VMR/DirectX would be really a dream.

4 - pan/crop save function saves keyframes too, no just the first one.

MOTION TRACKING !!!

- Ray
----------------

I second all that..

buffering would make a HUGE difference cosnidering how high resolutions have come. To edit and preview live without judder straight off a laptop running SDI input from an EX1 .... ... hmmmmmmmm

Script like performance as found in Adobe CS2 or MS OFfice, with "actions"or "macros" being recorded

DJPadre wrote on 12/13/2007, 9:27 PM

heres another one.. real important too..

MULTI THREADED FRIGGIN AC3 RENDERING!!!!!

malowz wrote on 12/13/2007, 11:32 PM

observations about my wishes (that looks more like vegas 9 than 8.0b)

1 - "Plugin v2.0" - if you have boris red inside vegas, with full support and integration, we have a plugin that complement everything in vegas, including whath is missing, like MOTION TRACKING (and better 3d enviroment, titler, stabilizer, etc...)

2 - "Real Playback Bufering" - fill a pool bringing wather with a 200ml cup. vegas works like this. too many interations bringing small pieces. less reads with largers buffers will speed A LOT

3 - "Enhanced Preview" - , and just preview, not opengl accelerated preview, or hardware acceleration, just a better way of trowing video on screen. overlay also wold help, stretching 16-235 levels to 0-255 for better video preview... (instead of a low contrast pale ntsc video....)

4 - is just a friend recomendation, small thing... ;)

DJPadre wrote on 12/28/2007, 11:32 PM

Id like to reiterate....

DECENT SLOWMOTION FOR PROGRESSIVE SCAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MUTTLEY wrote on 12/28/2007, 11:44 PM

MOTION TRACKING!!!

- Ray
www.undergroundplanet.com

4eyes wrote on 12/29/2007, 7:44 AM

Proper HDV capture which doesnt mussfire scene detection.I know that ALL programs capturing HDV with or without scene detection will close the stream, write the file and start a new capture file WHEN it receives data errors from the stream.
Data errors in the stream also cause Black Frames.

Usually this is the tape itself. I had the exact same problems with certain tapes. Now I only use the Sony HDV or Sony Premium tapes. I do re-use the Sony HDV tapes, after editing I will write the final edited footage to file (smartrender), then write back a new file back to tape with smart-render off.

You also can still today, will an add-on card have an irq conflict on a firewire port. This will cause data errors. Computers are so fast today you will not notice the conflict right away.

I just get confused when others have broken streams and black frames, yet with my HD cam in any program including Vegas what you posted has never has occurred once after cleaning the head and using the Sony tapes with a Sony cam.

So is this a bug, because I cannot reproduce this on my computer. XP or Vista.
Sony HC3 Camcorder.

StormMarc wrote on 12/29/2007, 10:08 AM

1 - "Plugin v2.0" - if you have boris red inside vegas, with full support and integration, we have a plugin that complement everything in vegas, including whath is missing, like MOTION TRACKING (and better 3d enviroment, titler, stabilizer, etc...)

***Yes, I agree completely. Vegas plug-in ability is really bad.

Grazie wrote on 12/29/2007, 10:18 PM

1] TRIGGERS! Audio <> Video Triggers - Can you imagine BOOM-BOOM affecting the DISTORT FX? WILD!!!! - And yes, I know and DO use markers.

2] GLOBAL TRIMMER CLICK: Click to open in Trimmer FROM Media Manager. From every where else it works.

3] FREE "SYNC CURSOR"! Sync Cursor within ALL GenMeds. And yes, I do understand why it hasn't been implemented.

4] Has MOTION TRACKING been mentioned? If not . . . .

I do have others too!

Anyways, back to rendering, we do have pre-rendering which produces segmented files, Having the option wanted can't be THAT far away? No?

Grazie

farss wrote on 12/29/2007, 10:52 PM

Simple request here. I'd just like to be able to capture DV correctly.
This has been broken since I bought Vegas and it's kind of embarassing that Vegas can't cope with Sony's own PDX10 camera let alone handle tapes with mixed DV audio.

Let them get that fixed THEN worry about all the other bells and whistles, at least there are other apps that can do motion tracking etc.

Bob.

Grazie wrote on 12/29/2007, 11:28 PM

"Let them get that fixed THEN worry about all the other bells and whistles, . . "

Hey Bob! Can't we imagine? Have ideas? Express a wish for better? . .
And . . . . ok, I'll bite - just exactly HOW bad is Vegas capturing my DV now then? And what ISN'T going on with DV capture - Bob? - Have I not seen it? I'm all ears!

But maybe you are suggesting something a bit more rank and rancid? Are you suggesting that these are issues that could be "hidden" under the weight of shiny "bells and whistles"? Is THAT what you are implying?

Interesting . . .

Grazie

farss wrote on 12/30/2007, 12:10 AM

Problem:

Try using the Capture Tape button in Vidcap. If you have a little bit of blank leader depending on your camera / VCR (by that I mean almost all Sony kit) Vidcap will lock onto the initial audio stream at 12/32K and resample everything on the tape to 16/32K.

I filed a detailed report of this problem years ago. The answer was, don't use the Capture Tape option. It's not a huge problem if you know about it but how many check the audio stream in their captured media, who has good enough monitors to hear the difference, who'd notice the hit on playback performance from the audio being resampled. I just found the problem by accident when I was checking something on the T/L. If you've got a Canon camera you'll not see this problem as Canon to the best of my knowledge don't do 12/32K audio.

Other problem:

Sony's PDX10 16:9 camera records dual mono audio, not stereo like every other camera in existance. Vidcap and Vegas cannot cope with this at all. I get around it by using SCLive but good grief, Sony camera, Sony software. The PDX10 isn't a high end camera by any stretch and personally I'm no great fan of it with 3 x 1/16" chips but one client uses it for a B camera and it's always grief when I have to handle his camera tapes. I can live with it and one day the PDX10 will fade away, I'm more worried about the first problem. It impacts the perceived quality of peoples output. It's hard enough pushing Vegas without little hidden gremlins.

And no, nothing odious implied. I know this stuff doesn't sell product directly. I notice recently one of my long standing gripes, the vertical tearing in the preview window if you select "Simulate Device Aspect Ratio" got fixed for us PAL users without a mention anywhere that I've seen. Good on SCS for fixing this, they'll not sell another copy of Vegas because of it but it's stopped me from feeling bad about what I'm watching and less nervous about having clients do a supervised edit.

Bob.

DJPadre wrote on 12/30/2007, 1:09 AM

Bob, it hasnt been fixed mate, Im still getting banding/aliasing when using simulate device aspect..

Grazie wrote on 12/30/2007, 2:05 AM

Is this ONLY on the Capture Tape button? I normally go "Capture" - the big red thing?

Grazie

farss wrote on 12/30/2007, 2:20 AM

So long as you start the Capture (yes the big red button thingy) with real audio from the tape coming down the firewire cable you're fine. If you're using Canon gear I think you'll be fine too. For some reason that has forever escaped me Sony cameras and VCRs send 12/32K when there's nothing on the the tape, even when you've told the device you want 16/48K.
Getting a bit off topic but worth a mention. On some of the Sony HDV cameras (HC7 for sure) if you reset the camera and then switch it into DV (SD) mode the camera sets the audio to record 12/32K. We've been tripped up by this a couple of times. What is it with Sony, don't they get it, no sane person wants to record 12 bit audio.
Bob.

farss wrote on 12/30/2007, 2:23 AM

I wouldn't say it's perfect but it's certainly been improved dramatically with 16:9 since V7 I think. I recall testing it with NTSC and it seemed fine all along.

Bob