Vegas and DSR-DR1000

farss wrote on 5/25/2006, 4:05 AM

That's one very expensive box of tricks and I cannot see how it'd make things any faster. According to the specs you can drag files off it directly but there's plenty of ways to do just that for a lot less cash.

I mean one could buy a pretty decent PC with a stack of HDD space etc for less money and a Vegas licence and that'd do all that the DR1000 does and a lot more, I mean the DR1000 can't even send emails :)

Bob.

Marco. wrote on 5/25/2006, 5:19 AM

The point is we actually have a DR1000 in one of our surroundings at work but I didn't get the chance yet to test it with Vegas. The very advantage of the DR1000 usually is you can playback and edit a file while the file is still recorded. We use it for editing events which are very close to live performance - soccer, gymnastics, basketball, etc. You start recording and 10 seconds later you can start editing the same file. We make a premix via a video switcher and 15 minutes after the event ends we can have a clean edited summary of the event finished.

For now we use the DR1000 in addition to a Sony MAV and the DNE-2000 connected via SDI. But I try to get out if I could have further improvements when using the DR1000 with Vegas. So the question for us is how to use existing equipment as efficiently as possible.

Marco

farss wrote on 5/25/2006, 6:12 AM

I think Vegas would freak out if you tried to use it while it was recording. Assuming the DR1000 writes a single file Vegas would never be able to make any sense out of what the file contained. However if the DR1000 writes small files sequentially then I can see no reason why you couldn't start dragging them onto the Vegas T/L as the recorder closes them.

However I doubt you'd ever compete with the linear setup you're currrently using speed wise.

Once you've finished recording though I can see no reason why you couldn't drag the file(s) into Vegas and edit them further.

You could also use Vegas to prep files for use during the 'live' edit, just copy them onto the DR1000.

ForumAdmin wrote on 5/25/2006, 7:04 AM

Vegas supports files from the DR1000 (and its portable cousin, the DSR DU1), including timecode. The extension is ".dlx", and the files work just like DV files.

Copy the files to your local drive, edit. You could in a pinch source right off the disc unit, but you'll likely get poor performance.

The disc unit main directory will have a series of clip folders:

0001
0002
0003 etc

Note: The disc unit is formatted as fat 32, and inside of the folders above you'll see a number of files with the ".dvd" extension. Leave these inside the folders!

Outside of these folders is a similarly named set of .dlx files:

0001.dlx
0002.dlx
0003.dlx

For editing in Vegas, you'll need to copy the folders and the .dlx files to the same local directory. From there just add the .dlx files to the timeline (we'll reference the folders, no user intervention).

NASA uses Vegas + the DR1000 for inspection purpose (Int'l Space Station project).

Marco. wrote on 5/25/2006, 12:26 PM

I don't want to force Vegas to edit like the MAV or DNE. But while one man is working with the DNE and MAV another one could work with the DR1000 and Vegas. Any workflow which is faster as realtime to aquire the files from the DR1000 is very welcome then because both MAV and DNE only could capture the DR1000 video in realtime.

The workflow you have using systems like MAV and/or DNE cannot be compared to linear workflows or those which need to always stop recording to finish and then edit a file. This "playback-and-edit-while-recording" is amazing and it is a standard for near-live production world wide meanwhile. There are ways to manage it in different ways (we did it in a different way even with our SP equipment, but ...) but them will need more machine and more man power.

After today I could test the DR1000 with Vegas but did not get it to work I now see Sony has answered and have good news to me ... :-)

Marco

Marco. wrote on 5/25/2006, 12:34 PM

Thanks a lot!

Today I tested it with Vegas but did not get it to work because I tried to use the .dvd-files only. Tomorrow I'll test again and I'll look forward it'll work using your infos then.

Another problem I had today:
I also tried doing a regular dv capturing via firewire with the DR1000 and Vegas but it did not work. Windows recognized the DR1000 and VidCap even showed me the first frame. But I could not remote control the DR1000 though it was set to "PC Remote" and same was displayed on the DR1000. I could start recording within VidCap but it only recorded a 5 frames long freeze frame.
I tried another capture tool but same happened. I saw the first frame of the DR1000 and even the correct timecode but I could not remote control the DR1000.
Now this wouldn't be all bad but there was no way then to manually start and stop the DR1000 playback. In the moment I connect my notebook and the DR1000 via firewire the DR1000 automatically switches into the PC Remote mode. No way to control that unit then.

Is there a certain driver needed for remote controlling the DR1000 via firewire?

Marco

ForumAdmin wrote on 5/25/2006, 12:57 PM

Traditional style capture with these is not advised- they respond to a degree to the DV (AV/C) command set but pre-roll and all kinds of other aspects of the drive unit are not "tape-like" and you are going to have troubles at some point.

Not a problem really- set up the deck as a mass storage device, copy the files to local drive and go. A file based workflow brings all kinds of benefits, such as no dropped frames EVER.

Marco. wrote on 5/25/2006, 1:45 PM

Yes, true. I just stumbled over the tape-like capture problems after I had no success to use copied files (because I used the wrong ones).

Looking forward to my test tomorrow - thanks again.

Marco

Marco. wrote on 5/29/2006, 5:36 AM

I now tested what you suggested but sorry to say it did not work.

I copied the folder "DV" to my hard disc. In the DV folder are the .dlx files and also there are the subfolders "0001", "0002", "0003", etc.
Also I tried to have direct access to the datas on the DR1000 drive.

But whatever way I tried Vegas did not recognize the .dlx files. I cannot drag them onto the timeline.

Are you sure Vegas is supposed to work with the .dlx files?

The only chance I see to get the DR1000 video onto my NLE then is to use SDI. But this is not an option because I can't equip the notebook used there with a SDI card.

Edit:
I just saw I still have that folder on my system. I opened a .dlx file with a text editor. What's in there is:

"PAL
1
631
00001 0 631 0"

Is this the content expected in a dlx file?

Marco

farss wrote on 5/29/2006, 2:50 PM

Are you using V6.0d.

Seems to me the .dlx files contain pointers rather than the video, probably pointers to the folders containing the clips.

Marco. wrote on 5/29/2006, 11:37 PM

Yes, I used V6.0d.

Marco

farss wrote on 5/30/2006, 12:23 AM

OK,
as don't have a DR1000 I'm at a bit of a loss tryong to help.
From what Mr ForumAdmin was saying this should work. The trick must be in forcing Vegas to read the dlx file.

I assume you've copied the .dlx files and the folders. Just a really wild guess but here's what I'd try.
Copy the 0001.dlx files to a folder, then copy the 0001 folder from the DR1000 into the same folder.

Ah,
incoming news!
The .dlx files are Playlist files, guess as I suspected they point to the folder that contains the file(s) and the other numbers are in/out points. The .dvd files in those folder(s) are the actual video files (why .dvd Sony?)

So if all else fails one might be able to just rename the .dvd files to .avi to get Vegas to handle them. But before doing that I'd check out all the other options I mentioned.

Bob.

Edit for postscript:

Firestore claim there DV Conversion utility can handle the .dlx and .dvd files. Specs are here: http://216.245.175.12/AVCAT/images/documents/pdfs/FSDVCSDS2.pdf

Note that's for the DRU1 which I think is the same internally.

Marco. wrote on 5/30/2006, 1:55 AM

>> Copy the 0001.dlx files to a folder, then copy the 0001 folder from the DR1000 into the same folder.

That's right what I did.

I also tried renaming a .dvd file to .avi but it did not work.

I took a look at the Firestore conversion tool. It might help but they don't offer a demo version to test the workflow. So I still hope there's a solution for using the files in Vegas.

Marco

farss wrote on 5/30/2006, 4:00 AM

I'd raise a trouble ticket.
Right here they're saying it works (although the directions are a little vague) so.....

I guess you've searched the documentation?

Then again there's a lot of things that it seems aren't in the documentation.

It could just also be that you need to install a codec.

Bob.

Marco. wrote on 5/30/2006, 4:15 AM

The documentation says nothing about direct file access via firewire.

>> It could just also be that you need to install a codec.

A codec? It's dv ... Even if Sony Pictures DV could not decode it and another VfW dv codec would be needed - it's installed.

If using the .dlx files actually is the way to go I only can imagine something's wrong with the file path way from the .dlx files to the .dvd files. But I can't get out a working constellation. I even tried copying the .dlx files directly into the folder where the .dvd files are but no luck either.
And I tried the suggested way using V4.0, V5.0 and V6.0. Doesn't work.

Also what I don't understand - if the .dlx files are just pointers to the .dvd files (what I think them are) then the .dvd files must be the actual media files and there must be a dv video inside. But then - why can't I open the .dvd files in any way?

Marco

farss wrote on 5/30/2006, 5:30 AM

From my brief brush with HD DV recorders:

There's several ways to write DV to a HD, raw DV, AVI type1 and AVI type 2, oh and lets not forget QT.
From the little I can deduct the data within the files is the same i.e. same codec. I THINK the difference is in the file header, probably it specs the in and out points for the file and the type of video. The raw DV file type is probably missing this data, in the case of the DR1000 the .dlx file contains this information.
Note that the Focusrite utility claims it doesn't change the actual video data, so presumably all it's changing is headers etc. Note also in the specs it says it needs the .dlx file as well as the .dvd file(s).

Why would this file type be used?

Again just speculation but I think it's to minimise head movement. Given that these units are using FAT32 and one recording can be split over several files that seems to make some sense.

Bob.

ForumAdmin wrote on 5/30/2006, 6:28 AM

Marco, I just tried this, works fine. Please email us- we'll help you out.