Vegas and the Model Movie

filmy wrote on 7/4/2004, 11:50 AM

The files you uploaded are huge, you might want to compress them a bit more for streaming. And no I am not on dial up and it still took close to 40 minutes to download the first one. But the bandwidth on Cheinworks site does not seem to be able to handle multiple streams of 16 meg files. (??) I am getting variable of 6 kbs to 16 kbs.

But to answer the question "What I'm curious about is, do any of you folks know ANYONE else doing this specific kind of video making?" - yes, there are a lot of niche markets out there. The first thing that came to mind are the Sports Illustrated swimsuit videos. Going back some years there were a *lot* of these kind of videos flooding the market. They varied from pure T&A to "high class" T&A and glamour - sort of what your videos look like. I know Julie Strain did some, one was a "how to play pool" video that had her, and another model, bouncing around a pool table being "taught" how to play pool by a pro. We got one video from someone looking for a distributor that was of a women in lingerie smoking cigars. Sounds silly - but the video was well done, much like yours, and it featured lingerie models smoking cigars - and unknown to me, or a lot of people I am sure, there is a fairly huge market for this sort of thing. The lingerie part I could see, the cigar part I didn't. But seems lots of people find the two pretty sexy and erotic.

Something that just popped into my mind - the Fredricks of Hollywood 'angel' commercials are along the same line as what you have done. Extremely high gloss and if they ever sell a video/dvd of them sure to sell a lot because of the existing high visablity.

Hot Body International put out many videos of this ilk, and as far as I know are still doing it. Maybe not a high gloss as what you are doing but for sure along the same line. Part of this is just before the adult industry became "acceptable" and video because really big business producers found out there was a mainstream market for well done/high gloss T&A. Enter the "Erotic thriller", many of them with scenes that looked like the videos you posted. People who would never go out and rent or buy an adult film would think nothing about getting one of these "erotic thrillers". Along with that came all of these niche videos - such as the Hot Body line. The Playboy line was in there as well. Problem is that when the adult industry started getting more "respectable" people just went for it and started bypassing the T&A stuff, well done or not. And then enter the internet.

The short anwer to the question is "yes". Glamour videos are out there, so are model videos and T&A videos or all sorts. How well they do anymore I am not sure because of the internet. I think the higher visablity videos probably do better - such as the Sport Illustrated ones. There was a Maxim one that aired not too long ago - not sure if it was for sale or not...I think it was something like "Maxims Girl Next Door". You could try, if you haven't already, setting up a website that features some of your models. Offer videos from them (or that feature them) and see how it goes. You just need to find your niche, or combine it with some other fetish - models who smoke cigars maybe?

mark2929 wrote on 7/4/2004, 11:52 AM

Merging Art with Glamour ! James Bond Style... My Opinion.. Not Sex But an Appreciation of Femininity... In the same way Body Builders...Artists have done this for years...And it is Art because of the Work and Skill Stan Puts in to these Micro Films..

vidiot57 wrote on 7/4/2004, 1:07 PM

Hello,

i watched one of them, pretty cool..Not sure of the market.. Maybe this is a great kind of Digital Press kit for a model to showcase herself.. You could probably put together a DVD for them, with photos, a music type piece, interviews, bio info etc.. All menu driven..and make a nice visual packaget to send to agencies and prospective clients..
Just wondering if you did everything in Vegas?? the chroma keying?? was it shoot against green or blue screen.. would like to hear more tech details of the camera, software etc you used..

mike M.

MUTTLEY wrote on 7/4/2004, 3:29 PM

Um, not to be the downer of the group but ... do you have the rights to any of the music that you use ? I'm not going to jump on a pedestal and claim that I've never ever used anything I probably shouldn't have, but to do it all the time and make an entire site and resume based around other peoples work just seems wrong.

Outside of that, what I saw looks good. Would only be better if you got bands to sign off on music or created your own with Acid. Just don't seem right.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

Stonefield wrote on 7/4/2004, 7:25 PM

I completely agree with you Ray.

The stuff I've done that features songs by popular artists is the work I've done as a hobby. Actually most of what I do is from my hobby. Getting paid for media work that uses other people's talents without permission is wrong on all levels.

Anytime there was money paid for work, even just costs, I've made sure no copywrites are violated. The work you've seen is my own personal work I do as a enthusiast of the craft.

Your stuff rocks by the way. Blows mine outta the water. Great work !

Stan

MichaelS wrote on 7/4/2004, 8:05 PM

If you ever need a grip...give me a call!

Good work!

Spot|DSE wrote on 7/4/2004, 8:30 PM

Without reading this entire thread, one company we've consulted to, a professional photography company specializing in high class female posing, had us come in and teach some editing skills and some filter stills along with building some 'custom' mattes for them to use. They take average housewives, put the woman's movements to music, and then burn DVDs for women to give their partners or signficant other. These are not porn, but rather aimed at financially secure women that want some excitement in their lives. They don't advertise, it's just an additional service. And they're making a LOT of cash doing it. Almost "Red Shoe Diary" type stuff without the acting or partner. They don't shoot anything that would involve more than the one woman. There is also a guy on the web shooting a lot of this sort of thing. It's a big market. I'd also wonder if Fleshpainter is shooting some of these, given the super high quality of his body paintings.

apit34356 wrote on 7/4/2004, 8:42 PM

Stan, looked at your work, I thought the model shoot was great! It's great that you have addressed the copyright issue right up front. Keep up the good work. Did you see Ray's video for his grilfriend? Great video. Its great to see Vegas users producing great work / art.

AJP

Stonefield wrote on 7/4/2004, 8:57 PM

Any links for the above mentioned sites Spot? I would love to see what other's have done.

Funny you mention Red Shoe Diaries. Zalman King's work on those was very influential for me, as was Kim Basinger's infamous "You Can Leave Your Hat On" dance.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/5/2004, 4:48 AM

I find it interesting how one man's ceiling is another man's floor. For example, Stan said, It isn't a music video or playboy or porn.

The only category of the three mentioned that the videos do not fall under is "Playboy" (after all the models were wearing clothing).

The other two categories are debatable. Although I could not find a definition of "music video," I have seen music videos that have not shown the recording artist, if one thinks that is part of what a music video has to have to "qualify." So I think it would/could loosely fall under the category of a music video.

Insofar as not being "porn," Merriam-Webster Online defines pornography as "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement." Are the images erotic? Yes. Are the movements of the women erotic? Yes. Do the moving images cause "sexual excitement"? Yes. Three out of three would seem to indicate that the videos do qualify as being pornographic. Perhaps a better way to describe them, in today's vernacular would be soft porn, indicating they are not of an "explicit" nature.

Do not misunderstand what I'm saying. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech..." and I support that wholeheartedly. By the same token, I believe the creator of any work--painting, photograph, video, movie, literature, video game, etc., should be responsible enough to accept the category into which that work may fall by it's very nature. The inherent character of the video I saw, Stonefield-Kiss, by way of the above definition, clearly falls under the category of "porn."

Just my 2¢.

Jay

RafalK wrote on 7/5/2004, 5:25 AM

Stan, your work has always stood out of the crowd. Your first tutorial is great as it approaches our craft from the artistic and not just technical side. Keep 'em comming. There are a lot of us here who stand to learn a lot from you.

farss wrote on 7/5/2004, 6:09 AM

Jay,
I agree, by the dictionary definitiion the works are pornographic. Unfortunately pronographic art has become associated with exploitation, something which it never was a few generations ago. perhaps in todays vernacular 'erotic art' is a more apt description but even that has unnecessary lurid connotations associated with it.
I find it a very sad commentary on our times that we are numb to images of human suffering yet ones which may cause "sexual excitement", the thing that led to the creation of each one of us, are unacceptable.

But no matter what label you want to put on them, I thought within the context they were well done, as SPOT had obliquely alluded to, there does seem to be a groundswell of women who want to celebrate their sexuality, down under we've had quite a few grandma groups posing for 'girlie' calenders which I find great.

Anyway, just my two bobs worth.

Bob.

mark2929 wrote on 7/5/2004, 6:21 AM

This Defination of Pornography is a bit Contentious... Would that mean Mini Skirts.. Low Cut Dresses.. Lipstick.. Hair dos.. or MTV... Anything to enhance the female form Is Likely to be a turn on for some one.. some where... Therefore Pornographic... I liked the Films Content as well as the Skill In making the Film Because It was Glossy Bright With Pretty Girls In..If I watched a Bond Film And the Opening title had a scantily clad Female I would no more be turned on... Nor would I be Outraged at the Slaughter that will follow Escapism and fun are not designed to turn people on... But to see larger than Life Out of normality and entertain... This is what stans film does for me... NO turn on for ME Whatever the Dictionary says...

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/5/2004, 6:49 AM

But no matter what label you want to put on them, I thought within the context they were well done. . .

Bob, to be sure, I never said or even implied that the videos weren't well done. There is no denying the production values!

Jay

farss wrote on 7/5/2004, 7:09 AM

Jay,
sorry, I probably worded it badly, wasn't a comment on what you were saying, just complimenting the guy on exactly that, great production. I think he said his background was in still photography which would explain his attention to details that a lot of videographers seem to miss, not that I'm any expert.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/5/2004, 7:24 AM

Thanks, Bob. I just wanted to make certain, in case anyone misunderstood me. Fact is, Stan and I come from similar backgrounds.

Jay

Chanimal wrote on 7/5/2004, 12:40 PM

Stan,

I would classify your videos as highly creative music videos. They also look like great promotional pieces for the models.

I know that you were mainly looking for comparitives, not reviews...although I saw some below. However, this last video, "kiss" was certianly different from your other pieces. It showed your attempt to try different things but it just bumped over the edge (hence I could relate to Jay's comments).

"Kiss" missed the class and playfulness of the others, and stepped down a knotch. I could save the others in my "Stonefield" folder, but It wouldn't be appropriate to keep this one --especially with the model who couldn't keep her hands off her top--and you used three shots of the similar footage (is she related to Michael Jackson?). I have an adorable, classy, sexy and sweet wife--this video is just past the edge--and I would not want to explain it to her. If I was an attractive, sweet and classy model, I would not want to be in this particular video.

Like always, VERY good editing and filming technique--but you can do better (Connie Selica vs. Britney Spears), and I look forward to your future productions.

Ted

Liam_Vegas wrote on 7/5/2004, 12:56 PM

Bit of an Off Topic post here... but I hope you find my pespective of some interest/relevance.

Having just got back from Iran... I do find that I am npw pondoring the "in your face" sexuality that is enveloping society. It was being away from the "eye candy" in Iran that now just makes it somehow much more noticeable.

While on the way back to the USA from Iran I stopped by in the UK and it hit me even more as walking around the "East-End" of London as I found myself walking alongside women in muslim dress (actually even more extreme than I saw in Iran) while next to them would be woemen with just about everything showing. Somehow the direct comparison seemed to illustrate the cultural dilema.

While in Iran I had a very odd moment when a group of young (male) students asked me "Is it true that western boys are always horny?". At the time (apart from being totally floored by the question) I regret that I treated the question as a bit of a joke... but on reflection I think the question was VERY seriously asked. (and if you are interested my reply was "Yes of course... aren't Iranian boys always horny too?". I said a lot more as well.... but nevertheless it only hit me afterwards just how specific the question was... and it was not in any way meant as a joke.

I find myself actually thinking "what on earth would the peopel I met in Iran (both the men.women) actually think of this sort of thing. I certainly spent some time taling about this very subject with a number of women I met on the trip and some could not wait for the day when they would be able to take off their awful scarves and other "coverings" while others felt protected and would not think of doing so.

Don't get me wrong.. my perspective here is not suddenly someone who is advocating we should all cover up... but it's just that I now have a slightly different perspective on it.

And... by the way... the videos ARE truly amazing. Very much in my mind a true piece of art. I only wish that someday I will have a chance to develop such skills in videography / lighting / video editing. Truly exceptional work.

MUTTLEY wrote on 7/5/2004, 1:33 PM

Stonefield, swear I'm not trying to split hairs but I would take exception with your defense of using copyrighted material by saying : "The stuff I've done that features songs by popular artists is the work I've done as a hobby. Actually most of what I do is from my hobby." On your site you have these " hobby videos " and than a " Corporate Profile " and you list services, including " MotionPortfolios ", which I assume are these type of videos. There is nothing about your site that would make me believe that you were doing this just as a hobby. And from what I can see over 80% of what is on your site and that you are promoting is girls dancing to copyrighted material. Even your reel uses " All Right Now ", its just a week defense.

I'm surprised with all the heated debate about the use of copyrighted material that I'm the only one saying anything. As I have said, I'm not completely innocent on this one. Those who have been to my site might have seen the " Valentines Day " video I did for my girlfriend for Valentines day which does indeed include copyrighted material. But in my defense this was a one off, not the bulk of my work and it should be obvious to any who see it that this was indeed a personal work, or shall I say " hobby ".

Whatever ya do is your deal. Your work and editing is truly exceptional. I just don't respect the fact that you exploit other peoples hard work to make yourself look better. This is only compounded by the fact that you say you have remixed some of these tunes, which means you have the skill to create your own.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

Spot|DSE wrote on 7/5/2004, 2:43 PM

http://www.zero99.com/
http://www.debenport.com
warning, contains nudity
Whether or not it's considered porn is defined by your own benchmark.

apit34356 wrote on 7/5/2004, 6:17 PM

Liam Vegas, having actually traveled and worked over the world in my 30 years, you are limiting your view of culture. People basicly want to be unique, but still be part of sometime bigger, usually for security needs. Don't read too into culture, it's always fluid, like fashon, always changing to meet the market needs.

Liam_Vegas wrote on 7/5/2004, 6:40 PM

apit34356

Not sure what you are trying to say... but I am er... glad you said it... whatever it is.

I cannot imagine what part of my post maked you believe I am limiting my view of culture. I think my experience has done completely the opposite.

Stonefield wrote on 7/5/2004, 7:25 PM

Thank you so much Spot, those are truly beautiful sites.
Please take care...

DVDeviations wrote on 7/5/2004, 7:31 PM

This post has been fascinating reading!

I read ALL of the posts, and I am just guessing, but sounds like most of them are from a man's point of view. Anyone interested in a woman's point of view? Well ... here goes .....

I think this is a great idea! Especially on the post where Spot mentioned that the "videos" are of average housewives, women, etc. This is a great "niche" market - many women would be interested in making one of these as a present for husband, boyfriend (or whatever) or just for herself. Believe me, a woman who is perhaps somewhere over 30 and still looks good (but knows it's fleeting) is willing to pay to "document" how good she looks .....

I am still at the amateur stage with Vegas and videography, but this is something I believe I could pursue in the future, so I am going to keep looking into this topic.

Here's some info that some of you might be able to use. There is a company that teaches women "the art of erotic dance". The classes are for everyday women, as some of you mentioned in your posts, just to feel feminine, etc. In these classes, the instructors do a very good job of making the women feel comfortable and at ease ('cause believe me, regular, average women are nervous about this stuff). They also have an instructional DVD that is very good. The women in the DVD are of all different ages, sizes, etc. Some are breast cancer survivors... They really are very average looking, but when they start to move, they look great!

Anyway, the website is www.artoferoticdancing.com. They teach in many parts of the country and even in London. This is not "strip-arobics" that has become so popular in the LA area, this is very personalized instruction.

I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about this one!

Vegas and the Model Movie - Anyone else ?

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