Vegas choking on little projects

winrockpost wrote on 12/28/2006, 2:33 PM

check your project properties, what format are the 640 x 480 clips

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/28/2006, 2:49 PM

A variety: sometimes AVI, mov or mpeg. Usually about 10 to 200Mb. And that's part of the whole myserty: nothing is excessively large or complex or unusual....

ushere wrote on 12/28/2006, 3:35 PM

check opacity slider! if it's anything but 100%, you'll know about it....

try working with straight avi's first. if they work then it's one of the other formats stuffing up....

leslie

wolfbass wrote on 12/28/2006, 4:16 PM

Here's a possibility:

Have you got an external device connected but not powered on?

If I capture from my minidisc player, and later use vegas but with the Minidisc player OFF, Vegas slows to a frame by frame display.

Just a thought.

Andy

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/28/2006, 11:46 PM

No opacity settings. No other devices connected (besides an external hard drive).

:-(

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/28/2006, 11:51 PM

You say "avi" but don't mention the codec being used. If the avi is 640 x 480, it's not DV. Information on the codec could/should be very important.

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/29/2006, 12:26 AM

I'm primarily using the MainConcept mjpeg 3.2.4, but also editing in Pal DV 720x576. Sometimes I also edit mpeg2 files that have been sent to me. All suffer the same terrible performance... Basically I do the edits and transitions "blind", then render, play it in Mediaplayer (which runs perfectly smoothly), and repeat until happy.

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/29/2006, 12:37 AM

The MJPEG is a small part of the issue.
I'd be looking at antivirus, paging files, HDD free space
Is your media on the same drive as the OS?
MPEG 2 is also a bear to decode on the Vegas timeline (all highly compressed media formats are hard to decode in real-time).
Got your preview window set to Preview/Auto?
How fast is your system?

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/29/2006, 12:40 AM

Thanks Sport/DSE. PC details as per above:

The system: Vegas 7b build 151; Asus P5P mobo, P4 3GHZ CPU, 2Gb of very fast RAM; twin 7200rpm IDE drives; Matrox 550 card (with the latest driver). I've done all the standard performance tweaks, and have also lowered preview RAM to 64Mb. Paging file is 3000Mb. Vegas is on the C-drive; all the project materials are on the second drive. I do run Norton AV, but disabling it makes absolutely no discernable difference.

I'm mainly using the MainConcept codec and Video 1 as AVIs. I alternate the view when editing between Preview and Draft according to what seems better (not that either are any good).

Grazie wrote on 12/29/2006, 12:53 AM

Bit more on the previewing please: Exactly WHAT are you previewing to where? MPEGS from Timeline to INTERNAL or EXTERNAL monitor Preview?

C: Space: How much defragged C: do you actually have? That is available for your 3gb paging file?

This second drive? What is it and is it an actual physical drive? Is it a partition of C:?

I get a shiver when I hear somebody having Vegas-centric MPG preview issues.

You are on V7b? V7c is available? Maybe mid-project aint a good idea . ..

Try disabling Media Manager too!

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/29/2006, 1:05 AM

Preview: Timeline preview on the "video preview" window. I'm typically getting about 3 fps in half-size draft mode

Got about 100Gb free on the C drive

Second drive is an internal 180Gb 7200rpm 8Mb cache Maxtor with... *gulp* 17Gb free. I'd better tend to that right now....

Media Manager is disabled. And I don't want to upgrade right now since I'm on a project deadline to finish about 100 of these little clips in the next week.

Grazie wrote on 12/29/2006, 1:20 AM

"Second drive is an internal 180Gb 7200rpm 8Mb cache Maxtor with... *gulp* 17Gb free. I'd better tend to that right now.... "

So you are kinda near that 10% free mark on the "supply"?

Maybe it is so "stuffed" that you have captured to many "gaps" and the material is being collected from all over the place? A fragged-up media disc may be the issue here? OK, but others can tell me IF that is going to impinge on what you are doing.

I try to wipe clean a disc and then start afresh. Maybe your material needs to be defragged? NOT a good idea mid-project.

But then and again you ARE seeing this stuff OK through Media Player? Did you say Media Player? I'm wondering if Vegas' ability to bring together MPGs is different to MP?

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/29/2006, 11:38 PM

I'm still hopelessly stuck here. I've tried rerendering clips, changing codecs etc, all to no effect. I can't even get a full frame rate in "draft quarter size" when using just one PixelEase filter.

Is there some other display option ? Another separate monitor ?

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/29/2006, 11:54 PM

what's your video ram set to? in the preferences section video tab?
and then how much ram do you have readily available after that?

this can severely affect playback I've found.

Dave

Grazie wrote on 12/29/2006, 11:59 PM

I'm running out of ideas here . . .

OK, start afresh:

1 - Put up an EMPTY Event - Roll that. Register the frame rate

2 - Put up a simple generated TEXT Event - Roll that. Register the frame rate

3 - Add a simple "change" to the TEXT - Roll that. Register the frame rate

. . . keep adding more and more Events and "types" of Media and NOTE just when you are getting the rate drop.

Interesting. You have a tad more powerful if not exactly the same MOBO machine as I. And I don't have this issue, so I'm interested to see if this is a "particular" issue for your setup but WITH the media you are using.

I hear your pain! Let's see if we can ALL get some support here - yes guys?

Grazie wrote on 12/30/2006, 12:01 AM

Dave? First post, 64mb.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/30/2006, 12:10 AM

un tweak your ram settings, put them back to default, and also lower your thread usage to 1. lower than default Ram allocation in that preference has given me a detrimental affect on my playback.

Dave

Grazie wrote on 12/30/2006, 12:21 AM

Now THAT is great advise!!

rmack350 wrote on 12/30/2006, 10:53 AM

This is good advice. The first rule of troubleshooting is to simplify the problem.

Rob Mack

alltheseworlds wrote on 12/30/2006, 6:11 PM

Thanks very much to everyone for the suggestions. Unfortunately none of them have had any effect :-(

So I've posted an AVI as an example of the files that are choking Vegas for me. This is a short AVI rendered from Vegas as a PAL DV - 720 x 576 @ 25fps (36Mb)

http://www.users.on.net/~hq13/test3/vegas-test.avi

Here's what I do:

- Start a new project: PAL DV standard 720 x 576
- Drop in the test file & loop (there's a silent audio track)
- Open the preview window to "Best - Full"
- On my system the CPU is now showing between 72 to 80 %. Very poor Methinks.
- Now add a simple "Sony - Quick Blur" and turn it all the way up to 1.0
- My CPU now shows 97 - 100% and the frame rate's dropped to about 14fps
- If I switch to "Preview - Full" the CPU sits on 90% with the frame rate back to 25fps

Is this sort of performance normal ? I'd be extremely grateful if someone on a similar spec machine (3GHz P4, 2Gb RAM, Matrrox 550) could test it out for comparison.

thanks again

Grazie wrote on 12/31/2006, 12:42 AM

Well, there's a thing!

That is one helluva noisy critter! I'm now downloading to test within V7. I do have an ASUS 3.2 with 2gb fast RAM. So it is kinda near your specs.

Hold tight.

G

Grazie wrote on 12/31/2006, 1:54 AM

TEST 1
FX = NO Blur
Preview = BEST (Full)
Preview Display = 720 x 576
CPU - 25% > 31%
FPS - 25

TEST 2
FX = Blur
Preview = BEST (Full)
Preview Display = 720 x 576
CPU - 47% > 53%
FPS - 9 > 12

TEST 3
FX = Blur
Preview = PREVIEW(Full)
Preview Display = 720 x 576
CPU - 27% > 47%
FPS - 25

NB: ALL these 3 tests were done with my FX setup WORKSPACE. This includes:

* 2 Scopes being updated
* The use of 2 Monitors
* All Preview data being updated
* Vegas LOOPING
* Task Manager being active and being continually updated too.

OK, now I repeated the same tests, but this time REDUCING those items that COULD/DO impinge on CPU=FPS performance. This means:

* One Monitor
* Preview Display set at half = 360x288

TEST 4
FX = NO Blur
Preview = BEST (Full)
Preview Display = 360 x 288
CPU - 8% > 12%
FPS - 25

NB: But this is useless 'cos I can't see all of the frame as BEST is set to full within a 1/2 frame display - right? Sooooo .. . on setting PREVIEW to "Scale Video to Fit Preview" . .next test ..

TEST 5
FX = NO Blur
Preview = BEST (Full)
Preview Display = 364 x 291 [ NB: "Scale Video to Fit Preview" ]
CPU - 13% > 15%
FPS - 25

TEST 5
FX = Blur
Preview = BEST (Full)
Preview Display = 364 x 291 [ NB: "Scale Video to Fit Preview" ]
CPU - 48% > 55%
FPS - 13 > 16

NB: Now I drop to Best "Auto" and remove the "Scale Video to Fit Preview"

TEST 6
FX = Blur
Preview = BEST (AUTO)
Preview Display = 360 x 288 [ NB: NO "Scale Video to Fit Preview" ]
CPU - 11% > 17%
FPS - 25

NB: OK, now I think to bring BACK my 2nd display. And this IS the best recipe I've yet found, for YOUR media, on MY 2nd Display Monitor:

TEST 7
FX = Blur
Preview = BEST (1/4)
Preview Display = 180 x 144 [ NB: NO "Scale Video to Fit Preview" ]
CPU - 33% > 39%
FPS - 25

Well, what I've learnt from this is, hen viewing real noisy stuff with a BLUR fx :

#1 - Remove ALL other realtime Display Updating functions - Scopes!

#2 - Actual "Preview" display SIZE has an effect on FPS. Yeah, well it WOULD, wouldn't it.

#3 - I can get LARGE good 25 FPS display when using my 2nd Monitor Display

Bottom line here is that I need to be "cute" about my optimum "Media<>Display" success. Meaning I need to adjust DOWN my updating options, this includes the PREVIEW updating, according to my media noise AND my FX-ing.

And for you, I don't see a real under performance going on? Maybe you may wish to experiment with your previewing viewing demands you are making? I rarely use BEST. Mostly GOOD or Preview. I need to GET to a story/narrative and also use FX-ing that might also use FXs. I've found I can get along happily with GOOD or PREVIEW to make those type of edit decisions. Now if I DO need to get critical about just HOW something IS going to look, then a quick RAM Build or Prerender gets me through.

If you aren't having an issue with viewing, and you are doing this research to set yourself benchmarks, I really DO think this is good practice. But getting back to what you and I m=ight want to get outof the door, then I take a more pragmatic view. I need to make videos and get to that story/narrative. It will depend on just how much you need to demand of Vegas to get there and stand back and consider just what this software can already provide. Edit and preview in BEST? As a menas of daily working? Not for me. To check out with others how my system IS working - sure. But otherwise? I keep to Preview and Good.

Interesting thread you started. Thank you. I've learnt loads. And, I hope, I continue to do so too.

Has ANY of this assisted you?

G

farss wrote on 12/31/2006, 1:59 AM

i have a 3.2 HGz P4 and get rougly the same results given the difference in CPU speeds. At Preview Auto, 25fps, Best Full, 6fps.

Odd thing is the Quick Blur FX seems to have no effect on that video, strange.

In general blur and Gaussian Blur in particular are CPU hogs.

Grazie wrote on 12/31/2006, 2:02 AM

Odd thing is the Quick Blur FX seems to have no effect on that video, strange.

Do you mean it isn't bluring OR it doesn't reduce the FPS?