Well said Guy.

Taking cheap shots at someone's struggles with Vegas is unprofessional. We all have different hardware and installed software that in a myriad of combinations make it very hard to sort out potential issues for a single user. That being said, bugs that cross multiple and wildly different systems suggest that it is indeed the software that needs work, not our hardware. That is often proven when after a series of patches, the instability goes away (without us changing our hardware).

My conclusion - broadly beta testing new versions (for free and for 2-3 months) then offering the introductory pricing when it is fully functional would win a lot of Vegas users back for the Vegas 12 release (after they clean up 11 of course).

MT

Most errors are User Errors. That is just a FACT. Sorry if this hurts people's feeling, but it is the truth.

It is not any user error Zeiteist. How can that be... Vegas 11 has a couple issues
to fine tune. You are doing exactly what Guy is speaking of.... Vegas is awesome,
but it cannot be improved if the everyday user dont post what problems they are
having.

I think workflow is a big part of it.

I do not get crashes with my usual workflow but if I vary my workflow to use the Neat video plug-in and do a test render of a portion of the video and then some more editing then my system not Vegas will do a hard crash! All I can then do is go to start and then shutdown the computer. I just updated the Nvidia Drivers so that may or may not now change.

There are others who use a lot of plug-ins that I never use.

So basically even though Vegas does not crash with my usual workflow I actually do have the same problems as a number of users here but I did not know it until recently.

Originally my system was a dog in the way of having a power supply that was sub-par along with driver and software issues. That part has been mostly cleaned up. Vegas has also improved along the way.

Another thing to consider is the video(s) being put on the timeline. Some codec’s might not behave well with the way Vegas uses the GPU along with the videos. I have 4 Sony consumer cameras that do not put very much stress on the system like some do.

For going from HD to 560x320 on my web page and 720x480 on DVD how much resolution do I really need to start with? I am now using 1440x1080 with the HQ mode setting of AVC HD 9M. That may seem a bit low but with approx 2 hours of video with four cameras and two audio recorders, anymore than that and it can take too long to load all of that on my system. I can use full HD but that slows things down too much. Not the playback but the total time to process the whole thing.

I do free work for the Church so I need to balance quality and time.

Anyway, keeping it as lean as I do makes it quite easy on Vegas.

Another thought is Vegas settings. Settings that I have on and another user here has off might be a factor in what issues they get and I do not get. The enable media manager is checked on my system as well as the check project file type associations at startup. Is it possible that those who have the replacement bug might not have those checked? I also keep my work drive clean and uncluttered as well as only one project on my system at a time. Would that make a difference?

So workflow, settings in the options, type of video files being used and what bit rate they were recorded at can all make or break not only Vegas but the system itself! In my case it is now not Vegas crashing but my system was actually crashing and bringing down Vegas with it.

I sincerely believe that if I were using some of the higher bit rate videos that some here use along with a lot more plug-ins I would be joining the chorus about crashes as well.

Because my needs are so easy on Vegas and my system for the most part I did not realize that I actually had issues. They are simply not triggered on my system.

I sincerely apologize to those I offended in my not knowing this!

Vegas 11 has had a ton of growing pains from being re-done for GPU use and SCS is working as best they can on it. Eventually this will all be in the past and talk will be about remember how Vegas 11 got started?

Anyway, that is my thoughts on this.

[i]>Most errors are User Errors. That is just a FACT. Sorry if this hurts people's feeling, but it is the truth.[/I]

Trying to change an OFX filter setting is hardly user error. In fact, I can't really think of any user error that will crash a bug free program. I could make user errors all day in V10 and never crash .

"Guys, can't we do better than this? "..
I really hope so.

Its not about if Vegas stable or not.. its about how we handle the discussions on these forums. Throwing mud at each other is not the answer. Personally i have never subscribed to this kind of forum behavior and will bite my lip and stay quiet during such attacks.
Its really damaging the reputation of Vegas to read personal attacks from one user to another. It really needs to stop. If there are issues with Vegas (and my own opinion here is not important), they should be address by SCS and between forum members in an adult professional manner. IE. help each other out by asking sensible questions and hopefully getting to the bottom of the matter.
I truly believe this forum is one of the best around. And the main reason for that is we share our ideas and knowledge for free. The less experienced editors and shooters (like me) gain knowledge from the more experienced. That's a wonderful thing and we can be proud of that guys.
So lets keep helping each other - even if someone cant spell perfectly, has never really used Vegas to edit before, doesn't know how to set up a stable PC, is unsure of Windows and how to maximize its performance, has never heard of .NET. and thinks a Runtime is only something runners do.
Well, i'm no admin! so good luck everyone.. be nice and help.

Paul.

+1 for Paul!

...Jerry

Trying to change an OFX filter setting is hardly user error. In fact, I can't really think of any user error that will crash a bug free program. I could make user errors all day in V10 and never crash .

That response doesn't help either. Even mentioning "bug free program" to a programmer is like saying a video is "editless" to an editor.

Vegas isn't "hello world" and there's a million things that can go wrong (I'm betting more when you include the code for the OS, drivers, other running software, etc). A "user error" is anything from putting a bad file on the TL to accidentally canceling a Windows update six months ago and now it's. Denying that the user did something (intentionally or not) doesn't help because, 99% of the time, it is something the user did somewhere along the line.

If a reformat & install fixes the problem, it was something the user did. If that doesn't fit it and the hardware has been tested, then it could very well be Vegas.

I'm betting I could crash any "bug free" program too.

"I'm betting I could crash any "bug free" program too" -- well, I don't know about that - I used to work with Level A software for flight avionics ( Boeing 777 for one). You would not believe how complex the testing is for that software ... on the other hand, fairly small programs (or tasks in our boxes) require millions of $$ in testing and documentation - far outside of any normal software testing. If Sony (or Adobe or anyone else) were to test their code to that level, nobody could afford it :-)

That said, as far as civility goes on the forums, that was one of the big reasons many of the newsgroups died - there were certain people that would simply take over the newsgroups either with spam or with insulting anybody that did not ask questions at what they felt was the appropriate level. It really doesn't cost any extra to treat people the same way you would want to be treated (of course if you are into abuse, we can find a group for you for that). Often questions come up that are obvious to the advanced users, but the beginners don't know where to start. Classic example - I want to adjust the volume at different points along the audio track. I start with the manual - look under volume - last time I looked it was not anywhere obvious to be found that the secret incantation is to add an envelope to the audio track to do that. Once you know the incantation is "envelope" it is in the index in the manual, but certainly not under "volume, adjust" or anything like that.

Be nice - it doesn't hurt at all :-)

mikey

Civility? On an Internet forum? LOL!

It's hard to find civility when you're dealing with people that have the holier-than-thou attitude, or "my sh*t doesn't stink, but yours really offends me"

There's just no dealing with people that have their head so far up their arse, they're looking out their own mouth.

In this case, you end up posting a problem you are having with Vegas, and every single time you'll get at least one self-absorbed, egomaniac, saying "Well, I've had no problems, and since my work is so great and yours looks like a home YouTube video, it must be YOUR fault. Excuse me I have to run, I'm working with an emmy winner tonight, and we simply can't keep him waiting."

<<What specific problems are you encountering Guy?>>

Fortunately I've had few issues with Vegas 11. I get "Program not responding" freezes on a fairly regular basis, but I do ctrl+s reflexively after nearly every edit so I just shut the program down, restart, and away we go. I've do avoid the New Blue titler, however, because that consistently crashed Vegas (haven't installed their latest patch though).

My last project developed issues with two edits after installing the 683 update and 296 nVidia drivers: black flashes at the edit point. Chances are it's just an issue with one of the AVCHD files; often adjusting the in/out point by a frame or two will solve the problem. If not, I'll render the problem file to mxf - I've had to do that twice with Veg 10 and it solved the problem each time.

For me, Vegas 11's GPU accelerated preview greatly outweighs the niggly little problems. I cut my last product video on 11 and I have to say that as good as 10 was, I'm having a lot more fun editing on 11. The smooth, high quality playback really has me spoiled.

I also have few problems with VP11. It does crash now and then, but every other version I used did, also. I hope that does not sound snobbish.

I was thinking about the civility thing and often thought I was just coming to a bash fest when looking for answers here. Imagine how many broken knuckles an noses there would be if there wasn't a wire or fiber optic between internet users.

There's a dude on the Acid forum using the handle 'acidsucks' or something like that.

That really sets the scene for proactive friendly poilte focussed peer support.

geoff