Vegas & .MXF for broadcast question

VMP wrote on 3/18/2013, 1:58 PM

I hope you guys can help me,

An European TV channel would like to broadcast one of my features.
They gave me some specification to make the final feature compatible with their broadcasting standards.

Audio:
They said the audio must be 'EBU-R128'. The specification can be read hereunder (from another channel):
http://www.n24media.de/fileadmin/AGB/Spezifikation_zur_Lautheitsanpassung_N24_ENG.pdf

Normally I check if the audio doesn’t peak the 0db meter.
What does 'Maximum permitted true peak level: -1dBTP' mean?
'-1dB' level on Vegas master bus meter?
Does Vegas have a 'DBU mode'?

Video:
The final file should be a '.MXF' file. It may be SD or HD.
I presume I can use the 'Sony MXF' 'HD422 1920x1080 50i 50MBps' as render setting in Vegas?

I shoot at the following setting `1080/50i FX' 25fps mode (Sony NX5 HXR).
The NX5 shoots at a bitrate around 24 Mbps.

I use Vegas: 9 pro.

BTW they are also asking to put a 16:9 test pattern (with a circle) before the footage.
Do you guys make them yourself or use existing ones?

Any help is much appreciated thanks,
VMP

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 3/18/2013, 4:07 PM

Vegas does not have EBU R128 / B.S. 1770 metering.
There are plugins from Nugen or Toneboosters available.
If you just have one program, the trial version meters should work.

If you are interested in having someone do the leveling for you, you can contact my username at gmail.

They will undoubtedly want REC 709 leveled video at 25 fps PAL, not 24.
MXF is a wrapper. You need more information about the allowable codecs.
There is no broadcast standard 16:9 test pattern, so you will have to get the image from them.

VMP wrote on 3/18/2013, 5:31 PM

Thanks musicvid for the feedback.

Can the 'REC 709' leveling be done with the scopes in Vegas?
Is enabeling the broadcast colors option adviced?

I shall look into the audio issue. I’ll be sure to contact you if I don't get any further.

rraud wrote on 3/18/2013, 6:28 PM

The Audiocation loudness meter is another free choice.
Ty Ford came up with a $30USD alternative which sets it automatically. (except for peak overs which must be done manually)

musicvid10 wrote on 3/18/2013, 8:39 PM

"Can the 'REC 709' leveling be done with the scopes in Vegas?"
Yes.

"Is enabeling the broadcast colors option adviced?"
Maybe. The amount of chroma spillover allowed is up to your station engineer.
Many of us here fine tune levels using scopes and levels/curves. Lacking scopes, Movie Studio users will use a stock Studio RGB Levels filter.

musicvid10 wrote on 3/18/2013, 8:46 PM

Audiocation is R128 only last time I checked, which may be fine for the OP.
If there will be intercontinental distribution, I have found that almost anything meeting A/85 also meets R128. I haven't personally checked Audiocation's calibration against Nugen. I really like the Toneboosters trial, which actually doesn't expire.
;?)

VMP wrote on 3/18/2013, 8:49 PM

Thanks rraud those are great tips!

Thanks musicvid I am going to look into that.

VMP wrote on 3/22/2013, 1:15 PM

About R128.

I have tried Audiocation R128 but it just gives pulsing numbers.
I found this interesting video.
If I understand the presenter correctly, according to the r128 the peak level should not exceed ‘-23’ on the traditional Vegas audio meter? And all audio loudness should hover at the same level. So that Lufs meter is something that I should have. Which shows a timeline.

]

rraud wrote on 3/22/2013, 1:54 PM

Don't know what you mean by the Audiocation meter gives pulsing numbers.
The meters in Vegas, Full Scale or RMS do not read or conform to the EBU or ATSC loudness specs.

musicvid10 wrote on 3/22/2013, 1:58 PM

"If I understand the presenter correctly, according to the r128 the peak level should not exceed ‘-23’ on the traditional Vegas audio meter?"

No. The Vegas meters do not show either True Peak or LUFS.
Just a note, I will be tied up with a teaching project April 1 - May 17, and won't be taking any new projects during that time.

VMP wrote on 3/23/2013, 10:50 PM

@ Rraud
What I meant was that the Audiocation meter only shows numerical values it does not show any history of the loudness level when the audio is played back (history function/ an animated level line).

@ musicvid
Thanks for the note, it is in that specific period that the project must be finished.

Any advice that you can give me is much appreciated.

I have installed one of the software that you have mentioned: the Nugen VisLM (trial) I like it so far.
Especially the history function

I am just wondering if I am using it right.
I have made a screenshot of the meter levels.
Is that red marked area the 'safe zone'? The loudness level seem to hover between -18 and -9 does that make it EBU R128 compliant?

Or should the loudness-level-line be at -23 border like the presenter states on the video?

musicvid10 wrote on 3/23/2013, 11:24 PM

I suggest that you contact another professional rather than trying to do it yourself. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

i am erikd wrote on 3/25/2013, 2:05 AM

I have been sending files for Broadcast and I always put them right at about -23 to give me a little wiggle room below -24. The level show in your graph looks unnecessarily low to me. I wouldn't think you would want your content to seem quiet compared to everything else.

Erik

musicvid10 wrote on 3/25/2013, 8:14 AM

"The level show in your graph looks unnecessarily low to me."

erik,
Sorry, that's not correct. Possibly you're not familiar with the Nugen meter.
For more information, see EBU Tech 3343 Version 2.0

i am erikd wrote on 3/25/2013, 9:04 AM

No, I don't use the Nugen as the Audiocation plugin works well for me and my work has not been rejected once by the networks because of incorrect audio levels. I'll also admit to just quickly scanning this thread but what was it that I said that was incorrect?

musicvid10 wrote on 3/25/2013, 9:22 AM

Take a closer look at the image.
;?)

VMP wrote on 3/25/2013, 10:18 AM

Hi Erik,

Indeed that seem to be the trick, leveling the average loudness at -23.

I just found another software from the same makers called 'NUGEN LMCorrect'.
With one click it makes the loaded (.wav) file R128 compliant.

I then loaded that corrected file in 'Nugen VisLM' which displays the corrected value. Screenshot below.

The highlighted 'light blue' line is the loudness level.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6131/r1282.jpg

rraud wrote on 3/25/2013, 10:49 AM

Use the Reset/Start/ Stop buttons on the Audiocation meter, the numerical values should change color as well.

VMP wrote on 3/26/2013, 7:26 AM

Thanks rraud.

VMP wrote on 3/26/2013, 7:27 AM

@ Erik, what format do you use to deliver your content to the broadcasting station, .MXF? XDECAM HD422 50 Mbps profile? 24 bit or 16bit audio?

According to the broadcasters the MFX file must have 8 physical audio channels, the first two contains the stereo channel. The rest are silent.

In Vegas pro 9, the only way to render a MXF file with 8 channels audio is to set the project to '5.1 surround' mode. Otherwise Vegas gives a render error that the project is not set right.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/26/2013, 4:51 PM

> "In Vegas pro 9, the only way to render a MXF file with 8 channels audio is to set the project to '5.1 surround' mode. Otherwise Vegas gives a render error that the project is not set right. "

I'm not sure about Vegas Pro 9.0's limitations but in Vegas Pro 12.0 you can easily set up a multichannel render template. Here is a tutorial from my web site to show you how:

Multichannel Render Template in Vegas Pro

Perhaps that's reason enough to upgrade.

~jr

VMP wrote on 3/30/2013, 8:38 PM

Thanks JohnyRoy,

That's a great tip, didn't notice the mapping option untill you mentioned it. Vegas Pro 9.0 has it as an option in the render settings.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/30/2013, 10:20 PM

Cool... glad that work for you. You're welcome. :)

~jr