VEGAS: Not going to see this many changes until 6.0?

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 1/6/2005, 7:24 PM

I was slightly astounded when I saw how many changes were enacted into Vegas 5.0b and then how it was one, maybe two changes for each version after that.

I love vegas, and I don't know of any NLE that I've used (Especially for the $$$) that is going to help me get my work done in the turn around time I sometimes need, but I feel like maybe they should look at the list of changes requested and at least take the top 2-3 and put them in Ver. 5.

Sony, I appreciate all the work you guys do to make this app as great as it is, but I like to stretch my money as far as I can too. I don't know how fast 5.0b came out after the initial 5.0 release, but that's when i got in. (I didn't do any student edition either, because I like to support a good software.) I don't know how many more releases you are planning on making before 6.0, but please consider at least some of the top few requested changes by many of the users - not assuming that you don't.

A still satisfied customer from day one. Thanks for all you guys do.

Dave

Notable Changes/Fixes in Version 5.0b

* An Import audio at project tempo check box has been added to the Audio tab of the Preferences dialog. When this check box is selected, ACID loops are automatically stretched to match the project tempo (specified on the Ruler tab of the Project Properties dialog) when you add them to the timeline or preview from the Explorer window. When the check box is cleared, tempo information is ignored.
* A bug has been fixed that caused the Explorer window to lose its Favorites settings if the list was too long. Favorites are now saved in the following file: C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Application Data\Sony\Vegas\5.0\ExplorerFavorites.txt. The file is saved whenever you close the Explorer window or exit the application. You can copy the file to different computers or user accounts to migrate Favorites settings.
To see this file, you must have the Show hidden files and folders radio button selected on the View tab of the Folder Options Control Panel.
* The Vegas Network Render Service no longer uses a unique installer. If you use the Network Rendering Service, you may install Vegas software on up to three computers (your registered editing computer and up to two other computers used for network rendering only) as specifically defined by the software license agreement. You must use the same information (serial number and registration information) on all computers.
If you need to purchase additional licenses, please contact our Customer Service department.
* You no longer need to save your project before using network rendering. Before network rendering begins, a copy of your project — in its current state — will be saved in the shared output folder for use by the renderers. This version will have all media paths remapped based on the Network Render Service file mappings.
* The Vegas Network Render Service can now set file mappings automatically. Right-click the File Mappings tab and choose Auto-Fill File Mappings from the shortcut menu.
* Markers for each MPEG elementary stream are now saved as an .sfl file.
* The MPEG reader now correctly reads the first frame of MPEG files rendered by Vegas. This also corrects an off-by-one frame A/V sync problem when reading MPEG files.
* You can now render QuickTime files with frame sizes up to 2048x2048. Previous versions of the QuickTime plug-in were limited to 800x600.
* A bug has been fixed that prevented the Edit Details window from updating correctly when using the Select Events to End command.
* A bug that could cause a crash when right-clicking with the Envelope tool in empty timeline space has been fixed.
* The Video Preview window now updates correctly when using the arrow keys to nudge the selection box in the Event Pan/Crop dialog.
* A bug has been fixed that prevented the Width and Height controls in the Event Pan/Crop dialog from handling pixel aspect ratio correctly.
* A bug has been fixed that prevented the toolbars in the Event Pan/Crop window from drawing correctly in Windows XP SP2.
* A bug that prevented Event Pan/Crop changes from invalidating prerendered video has been fixed.
* A bug that prevented Hold keyframes from holding their settings has been fixed.
* A bug has been fixed that prevented interaction between 3D tracks that were separated by an empty 2D track.
* You can now move the selection box in the Track Motion window using the arrow keys on your keyboard.
* Slow and fast keyframe types are now listed correctly in the Track Motion shortcut menu (slow and fast behaviors were reversed in previous Vegas 5 releases).
* The Sync Cursor button in the Track Motion window now retains its setting when the window is closed and reopened.
* A Sharp keyframe bug has been fixed in the Track Motion and Pan/Crop windows.
* A bug has been fixed that prevented 2D glow on a parent track from being applied if the parent track contained no media or track motion.
* A bug has been fixed that could cause a crash when adding 3D transitions to PAL media in a PAL project.
* A bug has been fixed that caused video event effects to be added as track effects when dropped on the cursor.
* Choosing Show Envelopes from the View menu lo longer toggles track keyframes.
* A bug has been fixed that caused gapping when recording audio under specific conditions.
* A bug that caused waveform gaps in temporary peaks during recording has been fixed.
* A bug has been fixed that prevented adjustments to the Master Fader on the Mackie Control Universal from being applied to the master bus in the Vegas mixer.
* You can now assign the F1 through F8 keys on the Mackie Control Universal to custom functions.
* The Mackie Control Universal (MCU) driver permits the use of hardware control surfaces that emulate the Mackie Control Universal MIDI command set, such as the Tascam FW-1884 or Yamaha 01X. Selecting Emulated Mackie Control Device in the Configure Mackie Control dialog will enable this option and permit the assignment of the corresponding MIDI input and output ports. Refer to your specific device's documentation for MCU emulation configuration and associated surface assignments.
* The Generic Surface Control device driver supports the Simple MIDI Machine Control (MMC) Transport command set.

Video

* 3D track motion and compositing
* Keyframeable Bézier masking
* Macromedia® Flash™ (.swf) format importing (ActionScript, motion video, and audio are not
supported.)
* Transition progress envelopes
* Improved MPEG-2 rendering, including two-pass encoding, 4:2:2 sampling, and transport
streams

Audio

* Support for control surfaces including the Mackie® Control Universal
* Envelope automation recording
* Envelope point thinning
* Improved punch-in recording with automatic input monitoring
* Improved audio time stretching
* ACID loop support on the timeline
* Support for 5.1-channel audio plug-ins on the master bus
* Film-style 5.1 surround panning
* Downmix monitoring so you can test your 5.1 surround project in different listening
environments
* Pre/post volume for buses routed to hardware outputs
* Bus-to-bus routing

Workflow

* Enhanced interface, including Windows XP theme support
* Multiple docking windows
* User configurable window layout
* Customizable keyboard shortcuts
* Subclip creation
* Real-time audio/video event reverse
* You can now drag the edit cursor to change its position in the timeline and Trimmer
window when the Allow edit cursor to be dragged check box on the General tab of the
Preferences dialog is selected.
* A marker tool that you can use to move or delete multiple selected markers
* Automation recording for track envelopes and keyframes
* Audio volume/opacity event envelope changes are applied to all selected events.
* Networked rendering
* Enhanced application scripting

Hardware

* Sony DSR-DU1 and DSR-DR1000 video disk recorder support
* J-H3 IEEE-1394 support with 3:2 pulldown removal on DV downconversion

Workspace Customization

* You can now have multiple floating sets of docked windows
* You can save and recall up to ten window layouts
* You can use the Display tab in the Preferences dialog to adjust the default track
colors, icon color saturation, and icon tinting

Comments

scissorfighter wrote on 1/6/2005, 7:45 PM

I concur. I have no interest in making futher investments in a piece of software if there are only limited improvements between versions. Sony has done a wonderful job so far, and needs to keep on track with a regular release train that keeps functionality improving on a minor-build basis. And pulling the trick of only implementing 1-2 changes per update just so you can increment the 5.x counter before releasing 6 isn't going to cut it.

Alternatively I wouldn't mind more frequent full version upgrades, if sony made a very inexpensive upgrade path available for registered owners, like $49. After all, what are we paying for? I am willing to pay big money once to buy the full version of any software package, recognizing that I'm buying a foundation that has been long in development. Purchasing the right to perform a certain task, i.e. video editing, with a tool created by someone. But bug fixes, feature enhancements, and functionality improvements should be considered as part of the deal. If I want to do someting else, like make music, then I'll fork over more money for a full version of ACID. But as long as it's still a video editing app, I already paid for the right to do that.

That said, of course Sony still needs to justify the expense of improving the software, and I understand that. So I'm willing to pay. But if you look at it from the perspective of % of additional features gained per new version, I think you'd find that current upgrade pricing is a little steep. In summary, I'll pay it if Sony makes my investment worthwhile by extending the time between version releases with multiple worthy feature enhancement patches. Otherwise, they'll have to drop the upgrade pricing to something more reasonable.

That's just my opinion!

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 1/6/2005, 8:00 PM

I don't want to make this a dig at Sony by anymeans, and please don't let it degrade into a big "THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH VEGAS AND SONY." (Not saying that you did that scissorfighter) I just am a little concerned that that's the appearence, mind you that appearences can be decieving, but I did hear about this being a problem before, so I'm not so sure that the appearence is all that decieving.

Like I said before, I'm definately a satisfied customer, and look forward to more improvements through new builds as well as versions.

Dave

TheHappyFriar wrote on 1/6/2005, 8:57 PM

what's wrong with their update prices? If you upgrade from V4+DVDA1 to V5+DVDA2 it's $250. That's about 1/3rd the cost of a new copy. And, noone is forcing you to upgrade. I got V4. Guess what? When V6+DVDA3 (i'm assuming) come out it's gonna cost me the same ammount of $$ to upgrade to that as if I upgrade to V5+DVDA2 now. So I think that V5 is cool but would rather wait, so I don't upgrade.

I highly recomend you check out other NLE's & see what their upgrade prices are. Vegas is about $150 cheaper then Premiere & the upgrade prices are the same (Encore is seperate though).

jaegersing wrote on 1/6/2005, 9:16 PM

I don't really have any problem with the upgrade prices. What I don't like is that V5 was released with certain "features" (like the lack of track motion presets), and to date, there is still no fix for these. We should not have to pay for an upgrade in order to put back things that should not have been taken out in the first place. I am also not trying to bash Sony, I just think they should do better for their customers in this respect.

Richard Hunter

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/6/2005, 11:41 PM

Frigid,
The list you posted isn't the entire list of upgrades that occured from 5a to 5b. It's a list of all features new to 5, with comments on what was repaired.
Sony doesn't do .5 upgrades, never has, and I don't expect they ever will. Adobe hasn't done too well with the concept either. They've always been pretty good about keeping a timetable, and about providing value. I'm sure they'll keep doing that. Vegas isn't going anywhere but up, and they'll continue to provide us with really sweet, new tools. They do listen to users, and are always looking for new ways to improve tools. Keep in mind, sometimes improvements to one aspect may cause loss of something else. Someone will always be unhappy with those changes. Were it easy to have kept track motion presets for instance, you can bet you'd have seen them right back where they were in earlier versions.
Of course they can do better. And they're trying to do so, like everyone else. I'm still pretty astounded they came out with 5 on the expected release schedule, in the middle of being bought out by Sony and all the related changes. Having been in the middle of all of what these guys do for several years now, I wish you all could see and hear how the product is developed, how much the engineers care for the product, and for what users want. It's so easy to take potshots at them, but there really is a lot more to the mix than you'd guess. While I don't think Vegas is perfect, these guys are incredible, from my perspective. You'd think I'd be more critical, simply because familiarity breeds contempt. But for me, it's been just the opposite.

Grazie wrote on 1/6/2005, 11:53 PM

Spot, can you tell me if the Build RAM Preview with Sync Cursors ON in P/C keyframer T/L is now working - beyond getting 2 frames? Has this been fixed in 5d? If you don't know then ok. I guess I need to find out from a User who HAS got 5d.

Sony! You are great!

Grazie

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/7/2005, 12:07 AM

Nope, that's not a fixed thing.
Gang, Version 5d is an HDV update, and that's about it. Just like the post says.....

farss wrote on 1/7/2005, 12:10 AM

I just wish I could get my car upgraded to the latest model as I can Vegas.
Look I know a lot of us have to be frugal with our money but there is quite a few people whose sole source of income are the sales of these products and the money from those who purchase upgrades. That's on top of having to pay all the bills and return a dividend to the shareholders.
On top of that how many times have I heard people (myself included) that Vegas isn't getting 'out there' enough. Anyone have any idea what floorspace at IBC and NAB costs, plus all those scantily clad blondes handing out blinking blue Vegas pendants?

PS Only one request, can we please have the same at the next NAB, I missed the last one. Oh no, scrap that, the misses is coming with me, ah no it'll be cool, she said it doesn't count when we're abroad. Sure love that lady!
Bob.

Grazie wrote on 1/7/2005, 12:29 AM

"Just like the post says....." . . uhuh, thanks Spot.

"I just wish I could get my car upgraded to the latest model as I can Vegas. " Yeah, that would be great!

Grazie

jaegersing wrote on 1/7/2005, 12:30 AM

Hi Spot. So can we expect to get ANYTHING fixed before the next paid upgrade? I agree that you can't please everybody, but I doubt if anyone wanted track motion presets removed. I'm still hoping it was unintentional, and that it will be fixed.

Richard

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/7/2005, 1:10 AM

Bob, it will be great to have you here! Mannie and I will buy you dinner, count on it! I'll be heading to Oz shortly after you leave here, too.

Grazie wrote on 1/7/2005, 1:36 AM

Marriage?

TheHappyFriar wrote on 1/7/2005, 6:09 AM

that's one of the main reasons I didn't upgrade to 5 right away with the cheap upgrade price. I use those things all the time & didn't want to go jumping between version 4 & 5. :(

If that's back in 6 then most likely i'll fork over the couple hundred $$ for the upgrade. I'm HOPEING it is because I love the biezer curve thing you can do & that alone is worth the $$$ for me, but I just NEED those presets back :)

farss wrote on 1/7/2005, 6:51 AM

We're certainly looking forward to it.
It'll be our second trip to the US, hoping to get a bit more time to have a look at the country.
Bob.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 1/7/2005, 9:35 AM

I have no doubt about the dedication the engineers have, and I've even talked to a people that work on Vegas. (They seem great). I was just having a momentary concern I guess. Like always, however, Spot you have calmed the stormy seas that are the Vegas forums.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 1/7/2005, 9:51 AM

"Frigid,
The list you posted isn't the entire list of upgrades that occured from 5a to 5b. It's a list of all features new to 5, with comments on what was repaired."

Thanks Spot, I was unaware of this.