Vegas Pro 11 Best practice workflow

travtek wrote on 10/25/2011, 3:55 AM

Hello All. While I'm not new to Vegas either in Movie Studio Versions or Pro since version 9, I am curious as to what is the fastest workflow possible. Currently I'm working with wedding footage from my kid's on DV tape that was captured to Xvid .avi file. The footage is about 90 min total with half of that being salvagable. The footage is also from two camcorders.

I use a combo of FXs from NewBlue FX and Sony's stock for color correction, tint, white balance, contrast and some stabilizer control. I also clean up the audio with plugins as well.

When using the composite feature, my playback is absolutely a crawl. If I 'mute' the 2nd video track everything runs in the the first video track (Camera A) is nearly seamless in flow (even with effects).

I constantly have to 'pre-render' a looped section just to see if the two cameras blend in sync with standard transistions. This is taking forever and becoming a real killjoy.

So to all you seasoned pros who make a living with this software and have real professional deadlines, what is the 'very best practice' to maximize speed of workflow especially with camera A and camera B?

The burning thought I have in question: Do I perform all splits and transitions first, then add effects last? If so, there will be a huge amount of manually inserting and tweaking of the FX for each cut.

I do have VASST's Ultimate S Pro but have not really played with it yet other than the audit tool.

Here's my rig's specs as well:
ASUS 5 PN-D MOBO (Firmware up to date)

Super Talent 8 GB RAM 800 MHz (max onboard)

Intel Core 2 Quad 2.83 GHz, Overclocked to 3.3 GHz

EVGA Nvidia GTX 480 - Overclocked by EGVA - Drivers up to date

EVGA Nvidia GeForce 9500 GT for 3 monitor (to check status of temps and performance percentages.) Drivers up to date

Windows 7 Professional 64 bit SP1 up to date

Corsair HX-620 Power Supply

Corsair H-100 CPU Water Cooler

3 HP W2207 LCD Monitors

3 x 1 TB SATA II internal 7200 rpm 8 mb cache drives

Antec 1200 Case

12 Fans mostly on the casing but fans on GPUs and NorthBridge as well

JR: I'm curious of your feedback as well.

EDIT:

Sorry for confusion folks. I must learn to articulate on the forum better in the future.

I could not 'capture' with the Sony capture method via firewire because it did not 'see' the DV camcorder.
Not sure if this was due to Sony software in Vegas 9 or Windows VISTA. So I had to make three lefts in order to make a right turn...so to speak.

I captured the DV tape to DVD on a standalone Panasonic VHS/DVD hybrid burner.

Then I took that burned DVD into my desktop. I searched around for something (anything) that would convert the DVD into a workable .avi file format.

This is very telling for me as I have not read anywhere that not all avi file formats are created equal. So now that I have Windows 7, I supposed I should re-capture the media via firewire and Sony capture tool. Or should I just use the sony cap tool for the DVD? The goal is of course to get as pristine audio/video quality.

So it appears I have that capture issue. But my original questions still begs to be answered as well. Please advise. Thanks again in advance.

Comments

ushere wrote on 10/25/2011, 4:09 AM

Xvid .avi!?

why?

recapture and make life easy.

travtek wrote on 10/25/2011, 6:56 AM

It was the only software I could find that would convert a DVD to avi for Vegas to work with. I tried other mpeg codecs but got nasty pixelation in the transfer. I welcome the solution if you have one to offer. Judgement comes easy.

EdRob wrote on 10/25/2011, 11:01 AM

Maybe you can work with the original DVD files. Make a copy of the xxx.VOB files and rename them to "xxx.mp2".

Former user wrote on 10/25/2011, 11:04 AM

Vegas has an import DVD option.

Xvid is not made for editing.

Dave T2

JohnAsh wrote on 10/25/2011, 11:34 AM

The OP said he is working from DV tapes so importing from DVD not appropriate?

I work from DV tapes. I import to Vegas by plugging my Camcorder into Firewire port (his maybe USB2). Sony Vegas does the work for me when I select "File, Capture Video". Easy. You can chose whether you want scenes detected or not in options.

Former user wrote on 10/25/2011, 12:08 PM

confusion reigns. because he said he had to convert them from a DVD later.

Dave T2

JohnAsh wrote on 10/25/2011, 12:35 PM

I didn't make it that far. Sorry. Confusion indeed. Perhaps someone plugged the camcorder into a DVD recorder? Whatever, he's best working from the original tapes as suggested.

travtek wrote on 10/26/2011, 3:59 AM

Sorry for the confusion Dave and John. Please look at the EDIT in the original post. Hopefully that clears things up. Also I'm still looking for workflow tips for speed of production as I have a complete library of videos to convert to DVD from 20 years past. The good news is they are all camera A source so things should go faster.

BTW: Is there a link that discusses in the forum or anywhere online about the pros and cons of which formats to use or not use for DV? I have Quicktime Pro 7. Should I be using this or avi or mpeg-4? Not using the H.264 stuff yet.

Thanks again for your support and guidance.

amendegw wrote on 10/26/2011, 5:27 AM

Well, if I understand this thread correctly, it seems the easy solution would be to put the DVD into your computer, launch Vegas & File->Import->DVD Camcorder Disc. This will allow you to edit the footage in .mpg format.

However, the better solution would be to capture the DV footage as .avi. For that we'll need to know what kind of hardware you have. i.e. what camcorder was it captured on? I assume it has a firewire connection? And are you saying you can't capture it via File->Capture Video->DV ? You may have to install the IEEE 1394 Legacy driver - see: DV camera and VCR could not be opened. (Solution)

...Jerry

travtek wrote on 10/26/2011, 6:26 AM

Thanks Jerry I will look into that tip when I get off work. I'm just confused about the conflicting info regarding the quality of the avi file. That some avi formats work better than others. Any validity to that as well? I know MPG has matured over the years but what about avi? I have yet to see an avi-2 or any other nomenclature.

Thanks again for your input.

amendegw wrote on 10/26/2011, 6:36 AM

"I'm just confused about the conflicting info regarding the quality of the avi file. That some avi formats work better than others. Any validity to that as well?"The .avi extension on a video file is just a wrapper. The editablity (is that a word?) of codec used to encode the avi varies - you've heard the opinions about the Xvid codec. Capturing using the Sony DV codec is a good one.

Editing MPEG2 (.mpg) clips is okay, but it's likely that you've lost lots of quality when capturing on your DVD recorder.

...Jerry

travtek wrote on 10/26/2011, 2:06 PM

UPDATE:
JohnAsh: So I found the original footage on the Samsung 8mm camcorder that's about 20 years old. Too old for firewire and only has one audio and video composite output. There are no cheap solutions for an adapter that supports composite-to-firewire ($700- $800) IF it even exists according to video capture websites. Can I be the only man left standing to need to convert these old DV 8 tapes into a hard drive???

I tried to use Sony Video Capture 6.0 but it does not have the option to read DVD. Sony Vegas Pro 11 only supports a DVR camcorder connection, not an actual DVD disc.

Ed: I tried your suggestion to rename the .vob files to mp2. Sony Vid Cap gives the following error:

"File F:\Working\DVD Capture\VIDEO_TS.mp2 could not be opened."

So guys if you know of a better avi 'wrapper' codec other than X-Vid and less elusive than Sony's codec I'm all ears. What did you all do back in the day? LOL

Thanks again to all.

rs170a wrote on 10/26/2011, 2:15 PM

There are no cheap solutions for an adapter that supports composite-to-firewire ($700- $800) IF it even exists according to video capture websites

ADVC-55. $164.95 + $32.78 for the power supply at B&H.

I tried to use Sony Video Capture 6.0 but it does not have the option to read DVD. Sony Vegas Pro 11 only supports a DVR camcorder connection, not an actual DVD disc.

You're looking in the wrong place/using the wrong tool.
File- Import - DVD Camcorder Disc and follow the prompts.

Mike

amendegw wrote on 10/26/2011, 5:12 PM

Just so there's absolutely no confusion, put your DVD in your computer's drive and do this:

...Jerry

travtek wrote on 10/27/2011, 2:09 AM

Jerry I did do that as well. Sorry I did not properly convey that in my latest reply. I tried everything all mentioned to try in the course of 2 hours with no results. In your import advice, Sony is looking for a different type of DVD format (I guess) that camcorders burn the DVD directly to hence the menu option 'DVD Camcorder Disc...'.

My regular DVD is burned with a simple menu with media chapters automatically cut every 10 minutes. It does not recognize it in my DVD drive but Windows can play the DVD just fine in the drive. Thanks for trying though.

travtek wrote on 10/27/2011, 3:03 AM

To rs170a: I think this is the breakthrough I've been looking for. I was just hoping to buy yet another signal converter for my collection. LOL. Just ordered from Amazon. In reading the reviews it looks like the pwr supply is not required since the firewire carries the voltage similar to USB powered logic. Any truth to that in your testing? Do I really need the AC adaptor?

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/27/2011, 5:45 AM

> "JR: I'm curious of your feedback as well."

Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I was away from work earlier this week for personal reasons. Others have already given you great advice so I'll just reiterate.

The best workflow for DV is to capture to DV AVI file. Vegas does not support editing DivX which is why you're having so many problems. Also as other have said, AVI is just a container for many codecs. Some codecs are easy to edit while others are not. Stick with the DV codec for footage that originated as DV and you should be fine.

Also, you are loosing a lot of quality because DVD's are compressed 25:1 while DV is only 5:1 so a lot of the original information is lost. Then you need to compress it again to make your final DVD. So you are correct that your workflow is the problem. You should simply capture to DV AVI via firewire, edit, then render to MPEG2 and your DVD's should look great.

If you need to capture from analog cameras, I would also highly recommend the Canopus ADVC-55, ADVC-110, or ADVC-300 depending on your budget. You can't go wrong with any of those.

Hope that helps,

~jr

travtek wrote on 10/27/2011, 9:37 PM

Thank you JR. I replied back via email. For the benefit of those who truly seek the best workflow approach from capture to render as the thread title suggest and not having the issue of avi file performance that I have could you and others give a quick response as to the following questions.

Should an editor apply global FX first then begin cuts, transitions and composite Camera A to B techniques to the timeline? By global I specifically mean color and audio scrubbing corrections (not the way out there Hollywood style razzle dazzle FX).

Or should I perform the FX tasks above afterwards? This is all in the name of speed of workflow from capture to render.

Thanks in advance to everyone for addressing THIS specific question and also a BIG 'Thank You' for fixing my avi issue previously covered. I'm just trying to adopt a pattern of success by you seasoned pros. Time is precious and I have so many projects to complete it's not even funny.

Steve Mann wrote on 10/28/2011, 8:03 PM

"In reading the reviews it looks like the pwr supply is not required since the firewire carries the voltage similar to USB powered logic. Any truth to that in your testing? Do I really need the AC adaptor? "

Yes.

Most firewire ports do not supply enough current to power the peripheral, especially laptops,

Former user wrote on 10/28/2011, 8:58 PM

No. You don't need the power supply. I am been using the Canopus AVDC110 for years and never needed a power supply.

It is good to have one if you plan on moving to a computer where the firewire plug might be a miniplug. In this case, power is not carried on the wire, But as long as you have the full size firewire plug, you have the power you need.

Dave T2

Gary James wrote on 10/28/2011, 10:17 PM

Even though it does not appear in the list of file types that Sony Vegas Pro can open, If you select File / Open, then type in *.IFO and navigate to your DVDs VIDEO_TS folder, you can select one of the .IFO files and it will load all of the .VOB files in that .IFO chain, both audio and video. For example, if you open VTS_01_0.IFO, it will load VTS_01_0.VOB through VTS_01_X.VOB. I believe this feature was added in Vegas Pro v7.x.

Just remember that you're now editing with your source material located on a DVD, not a HDD. So it will be VERY SLOW. At this point it would be wise to render to a file on your HDD using a loss-less format. Then open this file and edit from it.

travtek wrote on 10/29/2011, 1:12 AM

Thanks Gary for the advice on DVD imports. I'm hoping not to have to use this option (only as a last resort) because JR emailed me back stating DVD's are compressed 25:1 where as DV is only 5:1 compression ratio. Then having to recompress it again would lose way too much quality.

travtek wrote on 10/29/2011, 1:15 AM

Thanks Steve for the input. I guess since the unit is shipped without the P/S I will have to test my desktop's 6 pin connection. The manufacturer's website state I should not require one unless I have a 4:4 pin firewire like on laptops but that could just be marketing sales copy. I will test once received and provide an epilog for closure to this thread in a week or so once I get connected.

Steve Mann wrote on 10/29/2011, 9:14 AM

The only difference from the 6-pin and the 4-pin Firewire ports is the power.