Surely they won't teach you editing in feature-lacking or buggy version of Vegas Video 4. I can only imagine three things that would need to be added to make it an official release: documentation, packaging, and pricing. Consider also SoFo policy regarding Vegas Video stability/reliability. It must be a ready-to-go version that they will show in February. Anything else will have a negative effect on sales afterwards.

I'm not saying that they'll release it immediately, just that by that time we'll know the new features, and some lucky people will get their hands on it. Hopefully, they'll share their experience with the rest of us.

Have fun editing.

Alexei

Don't be in a hurry to get VV4.0...did you upgrade to ACID 4.0? SoFo-TAKE YOUR TIME AND DO IT RIGHT!
Steve

--Don't be in a hurry to get VV4.0...did you upgrade to ACID 4.0? SoFo-TAKE YOUR TIME AND DO IT RIGHT!

I'll second that... although, I DO have to say, I'm excited as hell!

David.

... ... yeah yeah, but then again ...

I rather wait as long as necessary until I am summonned to part with my dosh for the upgrade, ... and then (maybe) I'll wait a little more, until v4.01

You know, this Forum is kinda cool, we are all here discussing creativity and inventiveness and that. It is a pity if in 4 months time we will all be here shouting for bug corrections and complaining about errors.

I am very very happy with VV3. This does not mean that I don't wish to have more (I have a wishlist going from here to the moon), but I live with the shortcomings and spend my time editing video. VV3 *never* crashed on me, not a single time. I don't want to spend my time venting my frustation because the new version, albeit with more functionalities, is bugged to despair.

No, No, I want SoFo to take the time necessary to launch VV4 at least as stable as VV3. And I am sure that anyway they will launch it always a little too soon, because of commercial pressure.

If my voice reaches the sky (that means, if SoFo reads this) my only advice is: SoFo, talk to Satish ... :-) :-) :-)

I will say this, at peril of my NDA with SOFO......
I've worked with one HELL of a lot of Alpha and Beta ware. Including more than 9 years worth of SOFO stuff, including the alpha of ACID 1.0.
I've never seen a beta from anyone so stable.
Yes, we'll be showing Vegas 4 at the COW show, with some special tips and tricks for new features that I'm having to work out now, because of the book on Vegas 4.0 due to be published with CMP in March. So, attend the COW show, see V4, and who knows....there might be some special purchase incentives ONLY for those in attendance. Can't say for sure, but I'll bet that will be the case. There will be a VASST presentation for Vegas 4.0 on the first day of the show. The COW folks should have that up soon. For more info in the interim, www.sundancemediagroup.com/aboutvasst.htm will give you more info.

Hey, this is the most encouring words I've heard this months. Thanks a lot for the info!!!

Marco

Spot,

Thanks for that encouraging info.

G

When I installed Sound Forge 4.0, I was dumfounded at the total stability
and intuitiveness of the program. I was mired in Adobe premier 5.0 at the time
which drove me totally nuts. Then I wondered if Vegas was as stable as Sound
Forge and decided to give it a try after flayling on Premier 6.0c. SOFO at the
time had a deal going that if you had Premier you could get Vegas for $229.00.
After using Vegas I would have traded Premier, Pinnacle, and given them another
$500.00 for the deal.


James J. Kizak

> So, attend the COW show, see V4, and who knows....there might be some special purchase incentives ONLY for those in attendance

So are we saying that those of us on the EAST coast should not be given special incentives? Doesn’t seem fair. :-( So when are you holding Creative Cow East in NYC? ;-)

~jr

Also, what about the midwest?????

... and what about Germany???

;-)

Marco

Don't forget about Portales, New Mexico; we have over 10,000 people here!!!
: )
Randy

Oh no... what have I started? ;-)

It would seem like a bunch of technically savvy people who own video cameras (doh... like us) should be able to figure out how to virtually attend a show. I’ve been to a few conferences that used streaming media for the folks who couldn’t travel to attend a subset of the conference by signing up for a web seat. You don’t get the main exhibit floor experience but you do get the individual sessions.

Hey, I heard of this little company called Sonic Foundry that has a product called MediaSite Live and may know something about streaming media. They claim you just plug your computer into the system and present as usual and your slides, audio and video and any other accompanying graphics, is instantly synchronized and streamed via the Web to participants. Has anyone heard of them? May be we could get them interested in showing us what their technology can do. ;-D

~jr

Yes sir, a webcast would be great!

Okay yah! I should cocoa! - Blimey, we got the technology! We got the Customers! Howza'bout us seeing it in London UK? Cor blimey mother . . . get a grip!

Cheers - bottoms up . . . Hey got the VV upgrade from VF 3 weeks ago - does that mean I'll be up for a "deal" upgrade to VV4? - Hello SoFo?

Grazie

Yea, Smells like a golden opportunity to me:

“Sonic Foundry Vegas Video 4 makes its World Wide debut at Creative Cow West, brought to you on the World Wide Web by Sonic Foundry MediaSite Live”

A win, win situation: The world gets to see VV4 and SoFo gets to show off two technologies at the same time. For all of us who have complained that Vegas is the best kept secret in the business and that SoFo has done a poor job of advertising, here is an opportunity for SoFo to shut us up. Imagine actually using their streaming technology to sell their video technology. Hmmm... what a concept.

~jr

We've already opened discussions on the Media Site Live portion of things, however there are two issues....
1. People attending the V.A.S.S.T. day at the conference are paying a fee to attend the seminar. SOFO gets no part of that fee, it goes to pay for the hotel room, A/V, and other expenses.

Question is, how much would you all be agreeable to pay for viewing the unveiling and training (all day) for Vegas 4.0 and subsequently having access to all benefits of the stream and session, ie: special pricing, giveaways, etc? We'd have to hold a registration, and anyone registered could/would be eligible for any giveaway/drawings we might/will hold, plus the special info, and access to the html parts of the seminar via Media Site or however else we get this up in the air.
Totally still open to input from y'all here.
I can guarantee you it won't be free, because if it were, it takes away from the paid attendees at the COW show, not to mention the fact that it's gonna cost us one way or another. We've already learned that the union issues at the hotel mean we're gonna have to pay a union guy just to plug in the camera and mount it on a tripod, whether it's our cam or theirs. Those kinds of little things add up quick.

I can guarantee you it won't be free, because if it were, it takes away from the paid attendees at the COW show, not to mention the fact that it's gonna cost us one way or another. We've already learned that the union issues at the hotel mean we're gonna have to pay a union guy just to plug in the camera and mount it on a tripod, whether it's our cam or theirs. Those kinds of little things add up quick.

Just a quick thought, especially if you've already opened a dialog with SoFo... would they be willing, for example to apply a certain portion of whatever fee you might charge towards purchasing the Vegas upgrade? It might get the ball rolling a little...

Sounds interesting so far!

David.

I would pay--but I think you also have to factor in that Sonic is involved in negotiations to sell something. In other words, they are slightly preoccupied---Beyond that, if they end up selling Vegas, one would think that beta testing is as far as they wish to go with version 4.0. I would wager that they already have decided on what they are selling and to whom they are selling too.

There are two topics to discuss here with regard to web delivery: The Cow conference in general and the Sundance Media Group Vegas 4 session in particular.

For the conference:

I agree it should be fair for those who do attend in person and not be totally free on the web. I don’t know how many people travel to a Cow conference or whether they wait for them to come to a city hear them. I guess the cost would have to be balanced by two things:

1) The percentage of total show that will be broadcast relative to the cost of attending the show in person. So if there are 24 sessions and the fee is $600 but only half of the sessions will be broadcast then would half the price be reasonable? Some might argue that you can’t ask questions over the web or that part of the justification of the cost of attending is in the “networking” and “sidebar” conversations that you don’t get via the web. So is that worth 30%, or 40% of the cost? Would that make the web price worth 30% or 40% less? I don’t know what the right answer is but those are some things to consider for people attending remotely who need to justify the cost. Is it worth less not being there in person?

2) The actually cost incurred to broadcast the sessions. Will the fee cover the setup and bandwidth cost and could the Cow still make a profit at the end of the day? Would the ability for the Cow to showcase the excellent quality of their sessions justify loosing some money and considering it a type of advertising expense causing more people to get interested than would have had they needed to travel? Don’t forget, we’re talking about worldwide coverage. Would that spark interest in other Cow offerings? Or are we just talking about broadcasting Sundance Media Group sessions only? (or are all the sessions by SMG? I’ve never attended one so I don’t know)

As for whether this would dilute physical attendance, it depends on why people attend the conference. If they just want the knowledge of the sessions fed to them, you could argue that the sessions could be recorded and sold as DVD or VHS educational tapes. No need for the cost of a live broadcast. Just record it and make it available soon after. I think the exhibit floor plays a big part of why people attend conferences along with being able to ask questions in the sessions and networking with colleagues and having sidebars, etc. so I don’t think it will dilute attendance at all. But I could be wrong.

For the Vegas 4 session:

I was pushing for SoFo to have some skin in the game and make an informational session available to a wider audience at their cost. (it’s called advertising) There are companies that give away free stuff to attend a free web broadcast to guarantee they will reach their desired audience. When you’re the top dog you don’t have to do this but when you’re the underdog it is a wise marketing move. There could be an initial one-hour session to introduce Vegas 4 that was free both on the web and at the conference. Attendees get a discount for investing their time to listen. This is not unreasonable. It also shows off MediaSite Live. Participants might want to suggest it for their companies to use after seeing it first-hand.

I guess this is not aimed at all of us Vegas 3 users who will buy Vegas 4 regardless. It’s to get people using other NLE’s to give an hour or two of their time to hear what Vegas 4 is all about and perhaps get a discount by giving that hour of their time. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect SoFo to spend money so that a wider audience can hear about their new product. Giving away discounts is one way to get peoples attention.

I agree that an all day educational session on Vegas 4 should not be free. It should be based on the value it provides.

~jr

I think you think too much.
Sundance Media is doing these sessions, all 8 hours and 4 parts of them at our own expense. It would be great if SOFO was part of them. However, as pointed out in another post, SOFO is fairly busy with other things at the moment. What that might or might not spell for Vegas 4, it's marketing, whatever is anyone's guess. We're moving ahead until and unless we are forbidden to do so by SOFO. Whether we're showing a near release Beta, or showing the actual released product, no one knows. Including the folks at SOFO, I'm quite sure.
The VASST day-long session is NOT part of the attendance cost/reg for the COW show. The COW is not going to broadcast this show via Media Site Live. It hasn't been brought up, discussed, and there isn't enough time to put it together were it a possibility.
The sessions are Sundance Sessions only. We'll be teaching an audio for DV session, a full day of streaming, plus the full day of Vegas 4. We've entered discussions with SOFO to offer very special upgrade and purchase pricing for V4 for people who attend the sessions. Anyone is welcome in the sessions, we'll have registration for the sessions live in about 48 hours.
The ONLY question at hand is two-fold;
1. Are people willing to pay for access to a webcast of the sessions?
2. If so, how much (We have a formula to figure out how much this should be, but that's another story)
If the answers to both of those can be simply and quickly answered, we'll look at doing this with SOFO.
Ain't no way SOFO is gonna have the bucks to make it worth our while to make this an 'informational' session for free. No way at all. That's just nirvana-thinking. We've got FAR, FAR too much money and time invested in Vegas, equipment, knowledge, travel, and reputation to do otherwise.
for anyone who attended the Sonic Foundry VASST tours last year, they'll attest to the quality of information and materials. There simply is NO ONE who can do, or does software training like Sundance Media Group does.
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/testimonial.htm to read all about us...

Hi Douglas,

Perhaps you could make the session available on a tape that could be purchased after the fact for $39.95 or something like that. That way anyone could order a copy and there would be some profit for those who went to the work of creating the session. I'd bet you guys are videoing it anyway... Isn't that what we do? Regardless of what you end up doing, you have given many here hope that their favorite product still has some life in it and for that I join the chorus of thank-yous already expressed. Thanks for looking out for us.

:)

Tom