VHS basically sucks. I can basically only record 250 lines of resolution while DVD can double that.

Something I recently found out about and am currently looking into is JVC's VCR that can record in "S-VHS ET", which supposedly allows you to record S-VHS quality images on normal VHS tapes (meaning that anyone with a VCR can view these tapes). As S-VHS can record up to 400 lines of resolution, I'm looking into getting a few of these for use as dubbing decks.

How are you recording to VHS? I've rendered DV AVI's and then played back on my tv with my tv out on my ATI card. It looked ok.

The best way I know of is to play from your DV tape, or through your DV camcorder, directly to the deck, using the S-Video cable rather than RCA (composite) cable for the connection. Don't create a DVD and then record from that, and don't do anything else that will degrade the video before recording to tape. Obviously you should record at the fastest speed, and on high quality tape.

I would stay away from the S-VHS ET (S-VHS on standard VHS tape) because according to JVC (inventor of VHS), the quality of these tapes deteriorates more rapidly (it actually says this in my JVC VCR manual). Also, many VCRs won't be able to play these tapes.

You should be able to get tapes that look as good, or better, than VHS tapes you rent that have video (rather than movie) material on them.

You will have to use the color correction tools and run lots of loop renders (NOT PTT) as you test. In other words, do it by trial and error and check it on several TVs.

Essentially, besides the lower lines of resolution, VHS is unable to handle the color saturation that DV, SVHS, etc. can handle. You may have to reduce that with the color correction tools.

If this is for customers, don't use S-VHS ET. The VTR that they play it on must also have S-VHS ET to display it properly. The VTR itself makes a bigger difference than the S-Video input and the media is all the same. I would buy a few at Walmart and try them until you find one that makes good dubs. (Walmart has a 90 day return policy).

Using an external monitor when you edit is a must.


Keep your cables as short as possible and make sure that the connections are good.

Doug Graham wrote a fairly useful article for the COW website. Go here:
http://www.creativecow.net/index.php?forumid=1
Then search for How To Make Better VHS Dubs by Doug Graham. The article is unable to be linked so you will have to search for it. Some of it contradicts what I said above.

I own the Sign Video Proc Amp. It makes a huge difference in my dubs and because it is analog I don't have to battle with endless hours of experimentation, rendering, etc. I just twist knobs and instantly see what I am going to get.:
http://www.signvideo.com/video_duplication_equipment_menu.htm

Also, if you want the very BEST VHS tape, buy a used OLDER VHS camera which takes full sized tapes and shoot directly onto the tape. I say older because the optics have been cheapened over the years on both VHS cameras and Hi8 cameras. (But you get more "features".....lol)

The lighting is crucial if the end result is to be VHS. Outdoor shooting is the best. With stage lighting, forget it. If your camera has Zebras, always use them.

Setting the black level is crucial.

If you find a VTR that makes good dubs, you can try hooking it up to your DV camera at a shoot and output to VHS while you shoot......but that sort of negates editing.

Although I haven't tried it myself, there was a thread regarding Mastering to DVD for VHS duplication. Here it is:
http://www.mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=194179&Page=0

John

I'd just add one comment to what craftech has to say.

S-VHS machins will usually make better VHS tapes than VHS machines. They supposedly write a wider track and you get to feed SVideo into them. That might not help that much given the limitations of the media but every little bit helps.

The other thing to watch is levels. Run the broadcast color filter on the video bus. Unless your careful VVs generated media black levels are too low and that can cause VHS machines to loose sync.

OK, pretty good advice. Haven't had time to check the links you recommend though I'll do that shortly. I have the JVC VTR that takes an S-VHS input, records VHS and S-VHS. So we have a firewire connection to the unit. I print to dV tape this way with excellent results. BUt if I dub from miniDV, or print to tape and record on the VHS the VHS is not just bad it's horrible. Not just less better.... Horrible. As Carl Reiner once said," I may not know bad from good but I know horrible when I see it. I've had plenty of experience with horrible in my life." I have tried an output to a different VCR, I have tried transfering from DVD. I never offer anyone the VHS option but I just made a training video and was forced to convert it to VHS. Gees, it's embarrasing.

From what I've read, ANY svhs vcr can record svhs on normal vhs tapes. I remember reading (back in the days before dvd) that if you look at the bottom of an svhs and a vhs tape next to each other, you will see that the svhs tape has a small hole on one side or the other, and if you put a small hole like this in a vhs tape (with a soldering gun or the like), it will allow you to record svhs. Kind of like back in the REALLY old days of buying SSDD 5 1/4" floppy discs and cutting a little notch in the other side and having double sided discs.

I've never tried the svhs thing, but I would think it would work...

avideo: there's no such thing as an "S-VHS" input. It's probably an S-Video input (looks kinda like a mouse or small keyboard mini-DIN plug, right?)

There is no relationship between S-VHS (a method of recording on tape) and S-Video (a method of moving the video signal from one device to another). The "S" in S-VHS stands for "Super" and the "S" in S-Video stands for "Separate". However, most S-VHS decks have S-Video connections because S-VHS is good enough to show the difference between using S-Video and composite connections. Regular VHS usually won't show the difference much at all.

Many people buy an S-VHS deck for recording because it has an S-Video connection, but still record in regular VHS anyway.

I strongly suspect that you have become too accustomed to the superior quality of DV and that VHS looks horrible by comparison. In other words, I don't think the problem is printing from DV to VHS, but rather that VHS just isn't capable of anything more than you are getting.

However, rather than just make a useless statement, let me instead offer a suggestion of how you can tell if this is the case. Hook your VCR up to a cable or satellite feed and record a minute or two from some broadcast that has pretty much the same type of video from moment to moment. CSPAN or Home Shopping Network tend to just drone on for hours. Next, disconnect your VHS VCR, and instead hook your DV camera to the same video source, via the analog inputs on your DV camera, and record a few minutes. Finally, take the DV recording and dub it onto the VHS deck immediately after the recording you made directly off the air. If, as I suspect, the video on the VHS tape taken from the air, and the video put first on the DV tape and then dubbed to VHS, both look identical in quality, then what you are seeing is simply the limitations of VHS. If you notice a big difference, then post another message. If there is a big difference, then I suspect something in your cables (loose or possibly broken connection). It will then be time to get out the multi-meter and test the continuity of your cables (they should measure fractions of an ohm resistance).

Chenworks: yeah...i know this. It was just a reference to a previous post to help describe the VTR. I record to VHS from Vegas over firewire.

Johnmeyer: OK, I'll give that a try. Then we'll begin to narrow down the problem. But believe me. Horrible is horrible. not just bad.