VHS vs MPEG1 - any video quality differences?

clearvu wrote on 4/30/2003, 11:34 PM
A friend of mine told be that MPEG1 is equivalent to VHS quality. Is he right? I tested out a DV recording to MPEG1 for VCD and the quality to me seemed worst than what a VHS tape would be.

Based on my friend's opinion, if he's right, it seems to make more sense to make MPEG1 VCD's with VHS source as opposed to creating MPEG2 for DVD since the end quality would be the same.

Anyone know for sure?

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/1/2003, 12:22 AM
He's right if you have the bitrate and resolution high enough, but VCD's suck compared to VHS. A Super VCD is closer to VHS though, but that's a low quality mpeg-2.
pb wrote on 5/1/2003, 12:55 AM
It all depends on bitrate. Many companies still use MPEG1 for computer based training applicaitons and Power Point, primarily becasue of its universal acceptability. We got excellent quality going component Betacam SP into a hardware encoder at 2mbits/sec. However, we are now using DVCAM y/c (S-video) into a Dazzle DVC II at 2.5 Mbits and the quality is still good, provided the CBT author keeps the video windows at original file dimensions.

The critical factor affecting quality is native MPEG1 being 352 X 240, which is 1/2 a normal TV screen. If you make a VCD I think you are restricted to 1.1 kps or so and as theHappyFriar points out, VCD (which is doubling the 352 X 240 original file is low resolution.

You might want to try out Microsoft's Video 9 codec. You get good resolution full screen video at much lower data rates than what is needed for MPEG1. Only problem we run into is many people haven't upgraded to Media Player 9 = incompatibility.
RBartlett wrote on 5/1/2003, 3:35 AM
MPEG-1 approximates the number of vertical lines of VHS and 8mm-tape. Even the horizontal resolution matches the consumer tape counterpart. The bitrate of standards VCD matches a 74minute playing time first and foremost. This is just over 1.1Mbits/sec for the video portion of VCD.

Some commercial VCDs have either none or few noticable artifacts. Very few homebrew VCDs have this with any significant type of motion. Some of these optimisations never reached the consumer encoders. However, going from VHS to MPEG-1 can alleviate this due to the pre-filtering that VHS does from the higher band masters. Setting to write a disc of 352x240 (or 288 PAL) with a bitrate between 1.7 and 2.5Mbps is IMHO where VHS gets a fair copy onto a CD. You firstly get a lot less on a CD. Secondly most VCD playing DVD set top boxes won't play these discs. Some will.

VHS also has a trick to give you some of the vertical resolution of both fields, so 240 lines of VHS and VCD aren't strictly the same. SVCD is the other option, half-frame MPEG-2, but it is a standard that you can setup for.

MPEG-1, as your friend says is VHS quality because it is capable of being comparable. VCD, well, I don't think it is VHS quality often enough.
Blackout wrote on 5/1/2003, 3:55 AM
most importantly, mpeg1 is only capturing half of your frames as its not interlaced...your smooth VHS video will be jumpy.

To get anything even close to VHS you need to start with mpeg2 which is an interlaced format, like VHS (and TV)...ie SVCD or DVD..

Blackout
jaegersing wrote on 5/1/2003, 6:29 AM
I've been making some really nice VCDs recently, rendering AVI from Vegas and encoding to MPEG1 with Procoder set to Mastering quality. Depending on source material (the essential disclaimer) these are better than many commercial VCDs I've seen.

Richard Hunter
mikkie wrote on 5/1/2003, 7:04 AM
FWIW, General quality of codecs goes: mpg1 -> mpg2 -> mpg4 -> realmedia, DiVX, winmedia9 and so on, based simply on how new each spec is, the later versions having the benefit of more development based on latest knowledge etc.

Whichever you use, the most important factor is the video source going in, and the 2nd most important factor is the actual encoding procedure - there are quite a few "tricks" that can be used, and for pro (commercial) stuff the video is often encoded scene by scene as nec.

VCD & SVCD are to my knowledge designed to be viewed on a TV, and are supposed to be roughly VHS quality. Ironically, stand alone DVD players are said to be limited to VHS quality as well (regardless the actual quality), because the movie industry was afraid of people copying the content - remember reading about one exception in England that I think went for a few thousand $, and the movie folks left them alone because nobody could afford it. Myself, I think the term VHS quality as used has a LOT, too much room for different quality levels depending on who uses it.

That all said, & as pointed out I think, the best approach is to consider your source, your intended destination/audience, and your personal ease of use with any of the available formats.

If your work is going to be viewed primarily on PCs, then you might like one of the so-called streaming codecs like real or winmedia. Viewer problems might include: it can take a fair amount of CPU horsepower, a recent graphics card, & later versions of windows to view these. You can burn them to CD or DVD, and winmedia9 at least allows a lot of DVD-type features, such as chapter points, anamorphic frame sizes, multichannel audio, scripting etc.

Mpg1 on a VCD normally requires some sort of player software installed, but is less demanding of horsepower, *might* look better then the streaming codecs played on a PC to a TV using video out (depends on hardware), will play in a standalone DVD player (this depends a lot on your media selection, burning/creation software etc.). SVCD is as it says, a "super" video CD, allowing a greater range of bitrates, mpg2, larger frame size and so on, but it's less compatible.

DVDs are arguably the most popular format today, can fit on a CD or DVD, and can be either the easiest or hardest to create depending on your ambitions - you can use one of a host of programs (neoDVD etc.) to capture your video to mpg2 in a legal DVD layout, so all you have to do is burn the result after capture. Or you can easily spend a week or more, not just developing the menu layout and content, but fine tuneing the compression of your video.

A lot of BS to consider perhaps, but the original questions of source quality, intended audience, and what you're confortable doing narrow the choices considerably.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/1/2003, 7:27 AM
I didn't even think to mention this, but youe encoder will also make a difference. At work I've encoded video to Mpeg-1 @ 320x240, 3mbs, and it looks horrible with Premiere 6 and the Ligos encoder. On the other hand, when I encode with Vegas 4 and the MC encoder, same settings, it looks almsot as good as the origional DVC Pro footage.